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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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♪

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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[narrator] Eighty-five years
ago, in a remote corner of
Tibet,

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a little boy was born to
a poor farming family.

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One day, miraculously,

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he was discovered

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to be the reincarnation
of the 13th Dalai Lama,

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and he was soon carried away
to the capital city of Lhasa,

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to become the next political
and spiritual leader,

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of the vast kingdom of Tibet.

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But the little boy had a secret,

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locked inside his heart.

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Since my childhood,
I love technology.

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If I had not become
the Dalai Lama

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and I still remain
in my native place,

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then eventually so I may be

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engineer or electrician.
Since childhood,

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always a curiosity.

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Something, new things to see,

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I always developed the question,

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Why? Why? How?
How? Always happen.

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I think real introducer
about technology

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is some small toy,

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small machines.

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Then I play a few moments,

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and then out of my curiosity

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I always open, dismantle.

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I think maybe fifty/fifty
chance to re-assemble.

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Fifty failed.

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And then, actually not
much interest for study.

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I'm really very,
very lazy student.

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I always prefer play.

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One movie projector which
belonged to 13th Dalai Lama --

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because it's now quite old so,

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quite often you see, broke down.

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Small dynamo,
produce electricity.

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Then I begin to realize
AC, DC, how it works.

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So then gradually,
you see, developed

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interest about science.

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I have a keen interest
about cosmology.

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My telescope,

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I used to use it to
look at the moon.

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Then I found some
rock mountains.

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Western side, shadow there.

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East side, no shadow.

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Moon, no light.

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But light only from sun.

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Clear.

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One full moon night,

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I arrange my telescope.

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And I invited my tutors,

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"Please look whether
light come from sun."

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So they seriously watch,

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and then agree, "Yes."

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"Moon -- no light.
Light come from sun."

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So then, 1954, when I
was in Peking, China,

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we visit huge
hydroelectricity factory.

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I have sort of keen interest

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and then asking some
questions to those engineer,

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or electrician,
electrician right?

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About the differences of AC
and DC, and these things.

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And then also you see
different sort of factories.

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I think I was the only person

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fully alert to see how it work.

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The Communist Chinese
army entered Tibet

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in 1950, and despite
the many months

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that the young
Dalai Lama spent in

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high level meetings in Beijing,

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when he returned to Lhasa,

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negotiations with Chinese
government leaders

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soon began to fail,

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and tensions started to rise.

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In 1959,

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rumors of a Chinese
government plot

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to kidnap the Dalai Lama caused

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300,000 Tibetan people

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to surround the
Dalai Lama's palace,

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creating a human
wall to protect him.

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The Dalai Lama was
able to secretly leave

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in the middle of the
night in a daring escape.

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Four days later, the
Chinese army took action

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to disperse the crowd
around the palace,

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and fighting broke out in Lhasa.

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This fighting soon
spread across Tibet,

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and thousands died
in the aftermath.

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Many Tibetan families
escaped from Tibet

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to join the Dalai Lama in India,

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where Prime Minister Nehru
had granted him land.

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At the age of sixteen,
I lost my freedom.

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At the age of twenty-four,
I lost my own country.

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And yet, over time,

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he was able to create
one of the most

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successful refugee
communities in the world,

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run by a democratically elected

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Tibetan government in exile,

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with the rebuilding
of the monasteries,

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now in India,

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and with the
preservation of Tibet's

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unique Buddhist science,

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philosophy,
spiritual traditions,

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language and culture.

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Gradually, the Dalai Lama began

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to have opportunities

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to begin meeting with
leading scientists.

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David Bohm,

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Von Weizsacker,

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and some other,

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great scientists.

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These people become my friend,

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and not only friend,

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but Von Weizsacker
and David Bohm,

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I consider my own
teacher of physics,

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generally, and particularly
quantum physics.

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But science is always
seen as measurement,

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is that no longer true?

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Well, science is whatever
people make of it.

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You see, science has
changed over the ages,

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and it's different now from
a few hundred years ago,

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and it could be different again.

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Now, there's no intrinsic reason

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why science must
necessarily be measurement.

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This is another
historical development

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which has come about over
the past few centuries

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that is entirely contingent
and not absolutely necessary.

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And when Einstein produced
his special theory,

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which The Times
newspaper of London

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dismissed as being nonsense, um,

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was he moving towards wholeness?

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Yes. He definitely was.

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As he moved eventually toward

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a view of field theory
where everything

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was one field, all
the fields merging.

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So, it was a step
toward wholeness

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although not, you know,
it was a limited step

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but still it was the beginning.

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David Bohm and
Carl Von Weizsacker

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explained that the great minds

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which created the current
field of quantum physics

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at the turn of the century,

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Einstein, Bohr, and others,

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created their
groundbreaking theories

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through thought
experiments alone,

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not by carrying out
experiments in the lab --

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thought experiments
which were similar

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to those created
by leading scholars

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in the various schools
of Tibetan science.

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Physics, like quantum physics,

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very similar

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the Madhyamaka
philosophistic view.

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Nothing exists objectively.

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Wonderful.

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After that visit,

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the Dalai Lama met with a
new group of scientists.

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I met His Holiness in '83 at
an international conference.

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Immediately the charm,
his keen intelligence,

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and totally unassuming,

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just pure interest,

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I was very touched by that.

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And we were in the middle
of this conversation

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and his assistants were
pulling him by the arm,

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"Your Holiness, let's go."

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And then he said, "Why don't you

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come to Dharamsala

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and we can continue
these discussions."

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It was in February of 1985

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that a phone rang,
"I'm Francisco Varela,

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I'm calling from Paris.

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I understand that you're
trying to put together

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a science meeting
with the Dalai Lama."

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I was a friend of
Francisco Varela's

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and Adam Engle came down
to the Ojai Foundation

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and met with us and we sat
under this big oak tree

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and we discussed connection
between interests

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that Francisco and I had

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and what Adam and Michael
Sautman wanted to do.

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And I remember really
clearly he said, "Adam,"

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he said, "don't do physics,
do cognitive science."

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It was a really good fit
between Adam and Francisco.

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They had complementary skills

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and so the whole
thing began to unfold.

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It was very, very
extraordinary to watch it.

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I mean it happened.

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The most interesting things
that happen in evolution,

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and therefore the most
useful things to explain

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the diversity of life
are internal factors

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rather than selective pressures.

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Yes, it is true that if
the planet goes very cold

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animals have to change.

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But, how they change,

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how they go about it,

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is the result of
internal factors,

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much more so than
external factors.

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It is as if external factors

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impose very broad constraints

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but do not, cannot possibly

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determine what will happen.

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And I find this very
interesting because

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it's an exact parallel
of what we saw

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in perception that,
yes, we need light

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and we need some
stimulation in the retina.

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Those are the constraints.

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But, what we see depends
on the internal factors

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and the two together give rise

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then to some kind of
a stable perception.

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Well, here it seems to
be much the same thing.

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The environment gives
some kind of constraint on

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internal factors, then
species and evolution.

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His explanation, very clear,

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I think very precise.

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Very helpful.

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A person who have real authority

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in certain scientific field,

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at the same time,

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personally practicing
Buddha Dharma,

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that's I think quite rare.

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So, you see, he can explain

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with a more fuller
knowledge of both fields,

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science and Buddhist philosophy,

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so that's very useful, helpful.

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Certainly.

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There was actually
like a huge comet,

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but of such dimensions
that the just the collision

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evaporated the seas so the next,

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what was it? I don't
know, many years.

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It was purely in
terms of clouds.

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That meant that you know
the dramatic impact of life,

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at that point, life
virtually was abolished.

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Who stayed?

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As I mentioned yesterday,
our little friends.

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They were untouched.

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We might wipe ourselves
out of the planet,

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with atomic bombs,

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and that probably wouldn't
end life on the planet.

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So, in fact, from that point
of view you can reverse

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the tree and put
the bacteria on top.

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They are the best.

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We are very so/so

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because in fact we have made
our environment so fragile.

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So, the result --

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I mean these serious
discussion with scientists,

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then it became clear, this kind

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of discussion with
scientists is mutual benefit.

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And then after it was over,

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I looked at His Holiness again

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and I said, "well you
want to do it again?"

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And he said, "yes."

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On the day of the
second meeting,

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we got a call from Oslo, Norway.

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The Dalai Lama had just
won the Nobel Peace Prize.

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00:12:55,181 --> 00:12:58,146
...and I will call on you
as you raise your hand.

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We're open for questions.

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Why do you think you were
chosen for this prize?

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00:13:01,663 --> 00:13:02,801
And don't be humble.

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00:13:05,043 --> 00:13:06,698
I think as I mentioned earlier

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I think last thirty years,

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become refugee,

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00:13:13,008 --> 00:13:13,663
you see,

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desperate situation.

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Yet, I follow

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strictly, with my
own, how do you say,

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00:13:23,629 --> 00:13:24,939
according to my own principle --

263
00:13:26,043 --> 00:13:27,043
non-violence.

264
00:13:29,318 --> 00:13:31,387
I think that is the main reason.

265
00:13:31,422 --> 00:13:32,387
Later on,

266
00:13:32,422 --> 00:13:34,318
I learned that some
of his advisors

267
00:13:34,353 --> 00:13:35,905
had said, "you have to cancel

268
00:13:35,939 --> 00:13:37,284
this science conference,

269
00:13:37,318 --> 00:13:39,491
because this is a
great opportunity."

270
00:13:39,525 --> 00:13:41,250
But, he refused to do so.

271
00:13:42,215 --> 00:13:44,974
His commitment was
to the scientists.

272
00:13:45,008 --> 00:13:45,974
Here he was,

273
00:13:46,008 --> 00:13:48,318
he'd just won the Nobel Prize,

274
00:13:48,353 --> 00:13:50,353
and he was still
perfectly present,

275
00:13:50,387 --> 00:13:51,318
calm,

276
00:13:51,353 --> 00:13:52,318
steady,

277
00:13:52,353 --> 00:13:53,353
impressive.

278
00:13:57,318 --> 00:14:00,905
The vast majority of
scientists were skeptical.

279
00:14:00,939 --> 00:14:02,836
Now when I first sat
down with the Dalai Lama,

280
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:05,008
it was actually
quite surprising.

281
00:14:05,043 --> 00:14:08,525
See, I had the
stereotyped vision

282
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,836
of an Asian spiritual master

283
00:14:11,870 --> 00:14:14,594
as kind of floating on a cloud.

284
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:17,250
They're going to
be transcendent.

285
00:14:17,284 --> 00:14:19,077
Eyes half closed,

286
00:14:19,112 --> 00:14:22,318
occasionally saying
perhaps inscrutable things,

287
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,870
but, here I'm sitting
down across from him,

288
00:14:25,905 --> 00:14:29,043
I had this feeling I was
across from a wrestler,

289
00:14:29,077 --> 00:14:30,905
intellectually.

290
00:14:30,939 --> 00:14:33,456
He was taking my ideas
and he was grabbing them,

291
00:14:33,491 --> 00:14:36,353
and testing them.

292
00:14:36,387 --> 00:14:38,525
Now, I would like to show

293
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,112
experimental evidence
for the atom.

294
00:14:42,043 --> 00:14:45,077
Are there techniques,
like a microscope,

295
00:14:45,112 --> 00:14:46,905
or some technique
which will allow

296
00:14:46,939 --> 00:14:49,422
us to see even a single atom.

297
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,870
Now, until very recently
this was impossible.

298
00:14:52,905 --> 00:14:56,698
But, within the last ten to
fifteen years we now have

299
00:14:56,732 --> 00:14:58,974
very interesting evidence.

300
00:14:59,008 --> 00:15:01,594
There's a laser which comes in

301
00:15:01,629 --> 00:15:04,974
shines on the atom,
illuminates the atom.

302
00:15:05,939 --> 00:15:08,353
And then the light is given off.

303
00:15:08,387 --> 00:15:09,870
And we can see it.

304
00:15:09,905 --> 00:15:13,560
You see a tiny, tiny
pinpoint of light

305
00:15:13,594 --> 00:15:15,456
from this single atom.

306
00:15:16,456 --> 00:15:17,456
So this looks --

307
00:15:18,698 --> 00:15:20,146
It is through the telescope?

308
00:15:20,181 --> 00:15:21,077
Or through a microscope?

309
00:15:21,112 --> 00:15:22,767
No, it's with the naked eye.

310
00:15:22,801 --> 00:15:24,181
Naked eye.

311
00:15:28,836 --> 00:15:29,801
It's so bright --

312
00:15:29,836 --> 00:15:30,801
it's so bright.

313
00:15:31,663 --> 00:15:32,629
Yeah, it's very small

314
00:15:32,663 --> 00:15:34,560
but extremely bright.

315
00:15:34,594 --> 00:15:35,560
Does it move?

316
00:15:35,594 --> 00:15:38,491
No, it's localized in
a very small region

317
00:15:38,525 --> 00:15:40,181
a very, very small region.

318
00:15:40,215 --> 00:15:41,181
It's an ion trap.

319
00:15:44,801 --> 00:15:46,250
He would ask something

320
00:15:46,284 --> 00:15:47,629
and throw something back at me

321
00:15:47,663 --> 00:15:48,974
and back and forth.

322
00:15:49,008 --> 00:15:51,215
He's like this,
he's got his arms

323
00:15:51,250 --> 00:15:52,939
a little bit outside,

324
00:15:52,974 --> 00:15:53,939
and he's going,

325
00:15:53,974 --> 00:15:55,353
"Hum. Hum."

326
00:15:56,525 --> 00:15:57,525
Hum.

327
00:16:05,491 --> 00:16:08,008
Isn't it the case that
the atoms are always

328
00:16:08,043 --> 00:16:11,008
in a constant dynamic flux?

329
00:16:11,043 --> 00:16:13,043
You can ask, "Is it possible

330
00:16:13,077 --> 00:16:16,284
when one comes to an
absolute zero temperature,

331
00:16:16,318 --> 00:16:18,525
and you can go no further,

332
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,939
are the atoms completely still?

333
00:16:22,974 --> 00:16:25,077
Classically, the
answer would be yes,

334
00:16:25,767 --> 00:16:26,939
in classical physics.

335
00:16:26,974 --> 00:16:30,318
In quantum mechanics, it
turns out the answer is no.

336
00:16:31,939 --> 00:16:35,422
Because, quantum
mechanically the atoms

337
00:16:35,456 --> 00:16:38,146
must always have a small motion.

338
00:16:39,284 --> 00:16:40,250
This is --

339
00:16:41,284 --> 00:16:42,250
Yeah.

340
00:16:42,284 --> 00:16:43,836
This is an
experimental fact now.

341
00:16:43,870 --> 00:16:46,767
You can watch the
motion decrease

342
00:16:46,801 --> 00:16:49,456
until you reach a threshold

343
00:16:49,491 --> 00:16:51,560
and then it flattens out

344
00:16:51,594 --> 00:16:53,491
and the motion
continues at that level

345
00:16:53,525 --> 00:16:55,250
no matter how cold you go.

346
00:17:17,146 --> 00:17:18,456
Um, in terms of the Big Bang,

347
00:17:18,491 --> 00:17:20,663
doesn't there need
to be something

348
00:17:20,698 --> 00:17:22,387
to kind of ignite the Big Bang?

349
00:17:22,422 --> 00:17:23,629
If it really is a bang of sorts,

350
00:17:23,663 --> 00:17:25,284
then there needs to be something

351
00:17:25,318 --> 00:17:26,939
that ignites that Big Bang.

352
00:17:26,974 --> 00:17:31,560
But, if prior to the
Big Bang there is,

353
00:17:31,594 --> 00:17:34,284
it is absolutely cold, then how

354
00:17:34,318 --> 00:17:35,594
could there be any ignition?

355
00:17:35,629 --> 00:17:36,974
How could it be
anything to catalyse?

356
00:17:37,008 --> 00:17:38,939
I expected somebody who
was kind of disconnected

357
00:17:38,974 --> 00:17:40,422
from reality

358
00:17:40,456 --> 00:17:43,767
and in a spiritual fog.

359
00:17:43,801 --> 00:17:47,284
What I found was a person
completely present.

360
00:17:47,318 --> 00:17:48,284
Surprising.

361
00:17:53,525 --> 00:17:56,008
Since over thirty years,

362
00:17:57,353 --> 00:18:01,801
we develop serious discussion

363
00:18:01,836 --> 00:18:05,008
with many scientists,

364
00:18:05,043 --> 00:18:06,698
mainly from America.

365
00:18:06,732 --> 00:18:08,146
Five fields -

366
00:18:08,181 --> 00:18:09,525
cosmology,

367
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,181
quantum physics,

368
00:18:11,215 --> 00:18:12,215
psychology,

369
00:18:12,905 --> 00:18:14,284
neuroscience,

370
00:18:14,318 --> 00:18:15,905
then biology.

371
00:18:15,939 --> 00:18:19,250
The dialogues focused
in detail on cosmology.

372
00:18:20,215 --> 00:18:21,215
George Greenstein

373
00:18:21,250 --> 00:18:23,387
who is a colleague of
mine at Amherst College.

374
00:18:23,422 --> 00:18:26,560
When thinking about the
origin of the universe,

375
00:18:26,594 --> 00:18:28,353
we have a lot of
facts that we know,

376
00:18:28,387 --> 00:18:30,939
but they lead us to a
gigantic question --

377
00:18:30,974 --> 00:18:35,456
we do not know how to
deal with all matter

378
00:18:35,491 --> 00:18:38,422
occupying exactly
the same space.

379
00:18:38,456 --> 00:18:41,215
And, we also do not
know how to deal

380
00:18:41,250 --> 00:18:44,387
with all matter having
infinite energy.

381
00:18:44,422 --> 00:18:46,318
Was the big bang creation,

382
00:18:46,353 --> 00:18:51,250
or was it simply a stage in
the evolution of the universe?

383
00:18:51,284 --> 00:18:54,008
Did the universe exist
prior to the Big Bang

384
00:18:54,043 --> 00:18:55,284
and pass through this state

385
00:18:55,318 --> 00:18:57,801
and then come into
the current state,

386
00:18:57,836 --> 00:19:01,008
or was the universe
created at that instant?

387
00:19:01,043 --> 00:19:03,215
So, what do you mean
by creation here?

388
00:19:03,250 --> 00:19:06,043
I mean, prior to the Big
Bang there was nothing.

389
00:19:06,077 --> 00:19:08,215
After the Big Bang,
there was a lot.

390
00:19:10,353 --> 00:19:11,663
So, would you say something

391
00:19:11,698 --> 00:19:13,387
that has caused the
event is a creation?

392
00:19:14,629 --> 00:19:15,594
If you say that

393
00:19:15,629 --> 00:19:18,077
the universe is,
comes from a cause

394
00:19:18,112 --> 00:19:19,801
would that be
considered a creation?

395
00:19:20,698 --> 00:19:21,939
I want to ask you that question.

396
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:26,560
A third possibility --

397
00:19:27,525 --> 00:19:30,284
the universe existed,
contracted to a bounce,

398
00:19:30,318 --> 00:19:35,318
expanded, stopped,
contracted to another bounce,

399
00:19:35,353 --> 00:19:37,250
and this way endlessly.

400
00:19:37,284 --> 00:19:39,525
An endless series of cycles.

401
00:19:44,456 --> 00:19:46,112
Beginning-less.

402
00:19:46,146 --> 00:19:48,284
So to relate this story

403
00:19:48,318 --> 00:19:50,456
in that you told us
the different options

404
00:19:50,491 --> 00:19:52,456
that speculations
that physicists have

405
00:19:52,491 --> 00:19:56,112
come up with, the
Buddhist position

406
00:19:56,146 --> 00:19:58,284
seems to be much closer
to the third option

407
00:19:58,318 --> 00:20:00,870
where there is this
constant expansion

408
00:20:00,905 --> 00:20:03,284
and shrinking and then
coming into being again.

409
00:20:03,318 --> 00:20:05,732
This repeated dissolution

410
00:20:05,767 --> 00:20:07,594
and the origination
of the universe.

411
00:20:07,629 --> 00:20:09,387
One thing that we
need to bear in mind

412
00:20:09,422 --> 00:20:14,284
is that this idea in a
repeated kind of dissolution

413
00:20:14,318 --> 00:20:16,077
and origination of the universe

414
00:20:16,112 --> 00:20:18,560
does not necessarily
suggest that

415
00:20:18,594 --> 00:20:20,974
the same kind of
universe will come

416
00:20:21,008 --> 00:20:23,215
into existence over
and over again.

417
00:20:24,215 --> 00:20:29,215
And also same sort
of elements as well.

418
00:20:31,698 --> 00:20:34,077
So, you can envision

419
00:20:34,112 --> 00:20:37,008
a new universe with whole sets

420
00:20:37,043 --> 00:20:38,905
of new properties and elements

421
00:20:38,939 --> 00:20:41,181
that may not be the same

422
00:20:41,215 --> 00:20:43,181
as the one that existed before.

423
00:20:43,215 --> 00:20:45,353
And here of course
from the Buddhist

424
00:20:45,387 --> 00:20:46,801
point of view, karma
has a role to play.

425
00:20:46,836 --> 00:20:48,181
point of view, karma
has a role to play.

426
00:20:48,215 --> 00:20:50,043
One thing I would like
to mention, however,

427
00:20:50,077 --> 00:20:52,870
is that the idea of our planet

428
00:20:52,905 --> 00:20:54,422
being the center
of the universe,

429
00:20:54,456 --> 00:20:57,801
this anthropocentric,
was never in the picture.

430
00:20:57,836 --> 00:20:59,732
From the Sutras,

431
00:20:59,767 --> 00:21:01,284
they speak from the beginning

432
00:21:01,318 --> 00:21:02,836
of billionfold universe.

433
00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:04,905
Ours is a small unit.

434
00:21:04,939 --> 00:21:07,560
A thousand of those
being a secondary unit.

435
00:21:07,594 --> 00:21:09,250
A thousand of those
secondary units

436
00:21:09,284 --> 00:21:10,836
being a tertiary unit,

437
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:12,215
that means a
billionfold universe.

438
00:21:12,250 --> 00:21:14,353
They speak of universe

439
00:21:14,387 --> 00:21:17,146
being like curtains of lights.

440
00:21:17,181 --> 00:21:19,629
Like horses spouting fires.

441
00:21:19,663 --> 00:21:20,870
Wheels of light.

442
00:21:20,905 --> 00:21:22,250
All these beautiful images

443
00:21:22,284 --> 00:21:23,353
that you seem to be already

444
00:21:23,387 --> 00:21:25,043
looking the Hubble Telescope.

445
00:21:26,077 --> 00:21:27,836
But still, the
idea that there was

446
00:21:27,870 --> 00:21:31,525
almost infinite
possibilities, universes.

447
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,629
And I know for
beginning-less also

448
00:21:33,663 --> 00:21:34,974
there is another thing --

449
00:21:35,008 --> 00:21:36,387
there must have been life.

450
00:21:36,422 --> 00:21:37,560
There must have
been consciousness

451
00:21:37,594 --> 00:21:39,284
in all those billion universe.

452
00:21:39,318 --> 00:21:40,698
So, in a way, our Big Bang

453
00:21:40,732 --> 00:21:42,767
is a very, very
small part of history

454
00:21:42,801 --> 00:21:43,939
from that perspective.

455
00:21:49,422 --> 00:21:50,387
His Holiness says that,

456
00:21:50,422 --> 00:21:52,801
he has a hundred percent support

457
00:21:52,836 --> 00:21:54,836
for Matthieu when he contrasts

458
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:56,594
the problems, the concept,

459
00:21:56,629 --> 00:21:59,456
the imagination problem
versus the logical problem,

460
00:21:59,491 --> 00:22:01,181
with respect to beginning

461
00:22:01,215 --> 00:22:02,974
and beginning-lessness.

462
00:22:03,008 --> 00:22:04,284
So, the idea that

463
00:22:04,318 --> 00:22:05,284
we can imagine...

464
00:22:05,318 --> 00:22:07,353
it's easier for
imagination when we say

465
00:22:07,387 --> 00:22:08,318
that there is a beginning.

466
00:22:08,353 --> 00:22:10,491
But, logically, we
have more problem,

467
00:22:10,525 --> 00:22:13,767
but it's harder to
imagine when you say,

468
00:22:13,801 --> 00:22:14,767
"it's beginning-less",

469
00:22:14,801 --> 00:22:16,767
but logically that seems to be

470
00:22:16,801 --> 00:22:18,905
more in tune with the reason.

471
00:22:18,939 --> 00:22:19,905
The knowledge

472
00:22:19,939 --> 00:22:22,387
about cosmology, Big Bang,

473
00:22:22,422 --> 00:22:23,974
these things,

474
00:22:24,008 --> 00:22:25,250
in principal,

475
00:22:25,284 --> 00:22:28,284
Buddhist sort of
cosmology explanation,

476
00:22:29,456 --> 00:22:30,456
quite similar.

477
00:22:54,491 --> 00:22:59,250
The dialogues also focused
on Quantum Physics.

478
00:23:02,181 --> 00:23:03,905
What you see here
is a little laser,

479
00:23:03,939 --> 00:23:06,215
which emits light.

480
00:23:06,250 --> 00:23:09,008
These particles go in
one after the other,

481
00:23:09,043 --> 00:23:11,491
one after the other, okay?

482
00:23:11,525 --> 00:23:13,284
There's a contradiction here.

483
00:23:13,318 --> 00:23:16,974
On the one hand we have
individual particles,

484
00:23:17,008 --> 00:23:21,250
which can go through
one slit only at a time.

485
00:23:21,284 --> 00:23:26,284
On the other hand, we have
the stripes which indicate

486
00:23:26,318 --> 00:23:29,284
that there are waves which
go through both slits.

487
00:23:30,318 --> 00:23:32,560
How can something
go through one slit

488
00:23:32,594 --> 00:23:34,732
and through both slits
at the same time?

489
00:23:34,767 --> 00:23:36,491
This is now a very
important point,

490
00:23:36,525 --> 00:23:39,112
which is new in modern physics,

491
00:23:39,146 --> 00:23:40,146
is that the

492
00:23:40,181 --> 00:23:44,008
observer/experimentalist
decides which

493
00:23:44,043 --> 00:23:49,043
of the two features,
particle or wave, is reality.

494
00:23:51,456 --> 00:23:55,801
So, the observer has a very
strong influence on nature.

495
00:23:55,836 --> 00:23:59,318
There is no reason why in
this run of the experiment

496
00:23:59,353 --> 00:24:01,215
you get this result.

497
00:24:01,250 --> 00:24:03,870
And this is really the
first time in physics

498
00:24:03,905 --> 00:24:05,456
that you see
something like that --

499
00:24:05,491 --> 00:24:07,181
that we see events

500
00:24:07,215 --> 00:24:10,836
for which we cannot build
a chain of reasoning.

501
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:13,939
Some people even say
that what we observe

502
00:24:13,974 --> 00:24:16,905
in the individual quantum event

503
00:24:16,939 --> 00:24:19,974
is a spontaneous
act of creation.

504
00:24:21,456 --> 00:24:26,732
So, with this I think I
have finished my exposition

505
00:24:26,767 --> 00:24:29,629
of the quantum physics
of individual particles.

506
00:24:29,663 --> 00:24:31,387
And as the next one,

507
00:24:31,422 --> 00:24:34,146
I would like to go through
the quantum physics

508
00:24:34,181 --> 00:24:36,801
of two or more particles,

509
00:24:36,836 --> 00:24:40,525
which also has its own

510
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,905
deep, deep, uh,
mysteries for us.

511
00:24:42,939 --> 00:24:45,491
The notion which
we use to describe

512
00:24:45,525 --> 00:24:48,456
connectedness of two particles,

513
00:24:49,181 --> 00:24:50,939
the name is entanglement.

514
00:24:50,974 --> 00:24:52,801
So, the idea is that
these two particles

515
00:24:52,836 --> 00:24:55,767
even if they are separated
over very large distances,

516
00:24:55,801 --> 00:24:58,629
they always remain one system;

517
00:24:58,663 --> 00:25:00,974
they are not really separated.

518
00:25:09,491 --> 00:25:10,491
So, when you're talking about --

519
00:25:12,767 --> 00:25:15,939
dependency here, the
fact that what happens

520
00:25:15,974 --> 00:25:18,387
here on one side
seems to be dependent

521
00:25:18,422 --> 00:25:20,732
on what happens
on the other side,

522
00:25:20,767 --> 00:25:24,181
we're not talking in terms
of causal dependence, are we?

523
00:25:26,215 --> 00:25:27,905
That is a very deep question.

524
00:25:29,215 --> 00:25:30,284
A little illustration --

525
00:25:30,318 --> 00:25:33,560
suppose you have two dice
and then at some time

526
00:25:33,594 --> 00:25:36,456
you throw a die and your
friend throws a die.

527
00:25:36,491 --> 00:25:40,491
And it turns out that
even as both of them

528
00:25:40,525 --> 00:25:43,284
are completely random they
always keep the same number.

529
00:25:43,318 --> 00:25:44,284
How can that be?

530
00:25:45,215 --> 00:25:47,318
So the idea is that
these two particles,

531
00:25:47,353 --> 00:25:50,043
even if they're separated
over a very large distance,

532
00:25:51,077 --> 00:25:55,422
they're always, they
always remain one system.

533
00:25:55,456 --> 00:25:58,077
They're not really
separated in a deep sense.

534
00:26:01,284 --> 00:26:03,112
I'm sorry, are you implying that

535
00:26:03,146 --> 00:26:05,181
the entire universe is
internally entangled?

536
00:26:05,215 --> 00:26:07,146
Well that is a nice idea,

537
00:26:07,181 --> 00:26:10,353
but I would not want to
take a position on that

538
00:26:10,387 --> 00:26:11,939
because as an experimentalist

539
00:26:11,974 --> 00:26:13,422
I would not know
how to prove that.

540
00:26:25,146 --> 00:26:26,250
His Holiness was saying,

541
00:26:26,284 --> 00:26:27,767
probably someone
who can prove it

542
00:26:27,801 --> 00:26:30,422
will have to be able
to live very long

543
00:26:30,456 --> 00:26:31,663
to see the whole thing.

544
00:26:34,663 --> 00:26:36,594
Exactly. They would
need a lot of money.

545
00:26:39,629 --> 00:26:41,387
They continued to meet.

546
00:26:41,422 --> 00:26:43,870
You might ask whether
everything is the same

547
00:26:43,905 --> 00:26:46,422
or whether something has
changed in quantum physics,

548
00:26:47,594 --> 00:26:51,560
and there are actually
two important changes.

549
00:26:51,594 --> 00:26:56,215
One change concerns a
technical thing happening.

550
00:26:56,250 --> 00:26:58,836
And I know that Your Holiness,

551
00:26:58,870 --> 00:27:00,698
you love technology,

552
00:27:00,732 --> 00:27:04,284
so, I will mention that,

553
00:27:04,318 --> 00:27:07,560
that is the fact
that based on these

554
00:27:07,594 --> 00:27:11,594
fundamental questions
which we discussed already,

555
00:27:11,629 --> 00:27:15,181
people are developing
a new technology

556
00:27:15,215 --> 00:27:19,801
for information and that
is really a big surprise.

557
00:27:21,698 --> 00:27:24,974
Now, this is a
picture which tries

558
00:27:25,008 --> 00:27:28,525
to indicate the
entanglement of many qubits.

559
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,456
Each blue point is
supposed to be a qubit

560
00:27:31,491 --> 00:27:33,870
and you have many
connections here.

561
00:27:33,905 --> 00:27:37,318
Now, if I measure one qubit

562
00:27:37,353 --> 00:27:40,836
then it changes the whole state.

563
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:43,284
It does not only change
the one I look at,

564
00:27:43,318 --> 00:27:45,525
it changes all the other ones.

565
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,008
When I measure another one,

566
00:27:48,043 --> 00:27:51,698
another qubit, and
that changes the rest.

567
00:27:51,732 --> 00:27:53,284
And I keep going

568
00:27:53,318 --> 00:27:56,456
and if I keep going
the right way,

569
00:27:56,491 --> 00:28:00,181
in the end I have
the solution I want.

570
00:28:00,215 --> 00:28:03,077
This is a completely
new way of thinking

571
00:28:03,112 --> 00:28:07,008
about computation, it is
different from any computation

572
00:28:07,043 --> 00:28:09,836
people have been talking about.

573
00:28:09,870 --> 00:28:13,112
So, in a sense it's
a first technical application
of wholeness.

574
00:28:13,939 --> 00:28:16,387
I think this sort of
subject is very important.

575
00:28:18,974 --> 00:28:21,456
In any case is it those
subjects which often,

576
00:28:21,491 --> 00:28:23,422
you see, create more confusion

577
00:28:23,456 --> 00:28:27,456
that itself is showing
it's more complicated.

578
00:28:27,491 --> 00:28:31,870
So really worthwhile,
a further discussion.

579
00:28:31,905 --> 00:28:34,870
And I think a discussion between

580
00:28:36,043 --> 00:28:39,284
scientists or
specialists in this

581
00:28:39,318 --> 00:28:42,215
particular field and Buddhist,

582
00:28:43,318 --> 00:28:45,181
I prefer young scholars.

583
00:28:46,318 --> 00:28:47,318
They are your team.

584
00:28:48,318 --> 00:28:50,629
Yes. My team, my team, yes.

585
00:28:53,387 --> 00:28:54,905
Now the second point
which happened,

586
00:28:54,939 --> 00:28:58,801
which was actually
in part encouraged

587
00:28:58,836 --> 00:29:01,939
if not inspired by our
earlier discussion,

588
00:29:02,629 --> 00:29:07,215
is some new ideas
which we are developing

589
00:29:07,250 --> 00:29:10,870
on the conceptual foundations
of quantum mechanics.

590
00:29:10,905 --> 00:29:15,077
We are simply asking,
maybe knowing,

591
00:29:15,112 --> 00:29:19,043
maybe knowledge
is as fundamental,

592
00:29:19,077 --> 00:29:23,974
or maybe even more
fundamental than reality.

593
00:29:24,008 --> 00:29:29,043
We can very well handle these
kind of paradoxical situations,

594
00:29:29,077 --> 00:29:31,836
we have been talking
about, mathematically,

595
00:29:32,767 --> 00:29:35,594
and we can confirm
them in experiments

596
00:29:35,629 --> 00:29:36,594
with very high precision.

597
00:29:37,836 --> 00:29:42,905
But, we still do not know
conceptually what is going on.

598
00:29:42,939 --> 00:29:45,560
Why is the world so strange?

599
00:29:45,594 --> 00:29:49,491
And, what I want to see some day

600
00:29:49,525 --> 00:29:52,146
before I pass away
that someone explains

601
00:29:52,181 --> 00:29:53,870
to me why it is so strange.

602
00:29:54,629 --> 00:29:57,215
So, I want to, so
I want to learn

603
00:29:57,250 --> 00:30:00,181
new concepts and
this is a place,

604
00:30:00,215 --> 00:30:02,594
and there were some new
concepts brought out

605
00:30:02,629 --> 00:30:05,318
in your discussion which
are very interesting

606
00:30:05,353 --> 00:30:08,043
for me, and where I
have to think more

607
00:30:08,077 --> 00:30:10,181
and where I hope
I learn something

608
00:30:10,215 --> 00:30:15,284
which might even be relevant
in helping to understand

609
00:30:15,318 --> 00:30:17,387
some of these
phenomena in physics.

610
00:30:20,422 --> 00:30:22,974
So here I will insist
on the critique

611
00:30:23,008 --> 00:30:25,594
of the idea of
intrinsic existence

612
00:30:25,629 --> 00:30:29,870
and of the idea that they
have intrinsic properties.

613
00:30:29,905 --> 00:30:34,560
So to begin with, science
made a momentous step

614
00:30:34,594 --> 00:30:38,560
forward as soon as it

615
00:30:38,594 --> 00:30:40,767
understood that
certain explanations

616
00:30:40,801 --> 00:30:43,112
have to be given in
terms of relations,

617
00:30:43,146 --> 00:30:46,629
rather than in terms
of absolute properties.

618
00:30:46,663 --> 00:30:50,146
First example, the
Schrodinger cat.

619
00:30:50,181 --> 00:30:53,491
You have a box,
and inside the box

620
00:30:53,525 --> 00:30:56,215
the bottle contains poison.

621
00:30:56,250 --> 00:30:59,112
You have a big piece
of radioactive material

622
00:30:59,146 --> 00:31:01,870
that has the
probability one half

623
00:31:01,905 --> 00:31:03,767
to disintegrate.

624
00:31:03,801 --> 00:31:06,939
The state of the piece
of radioactive material

625
00:31:06,974 --> 00:31:11,387
is in the superposition
between being disintegrated

626
00:31:11,422 --> 00:31:13,491
and not being disintegrated.

627
00:31:13,525 --> 00:31:16,043
And according to
quantum mechanics,

628
00:31:16,077 --> 00:31:19,112
the cat should be half
dead and half alive.

629
00:31:19,146 --> 00:31:20,422
But this sounds absurd,

630
00:31:20,456 --> 00:31:22,250
because when you open the box

631
00:31:22,284 --> 00:31:25,387
and see in the box
it is not the case,

632
00:31:25,422 --> 00:31:30,422
you see either a dead cat
or a cat which is alive.

633
00:31:31,767 --> 00:31:33,560
So, there is a paradox.

634
00:31:33,594 --> 00:31:35,491
And, can I just say,
maybe we should add

635
00:31:35,525 --> 00:31:37,801
that there is no
cruelty involved here,

636
00:31:37,836 --> 00:31:40,491
because this is a
thought experiment.

637
00:31:40,525 --> 00:31:44,629
Thank you, John. Yes
this is perfectly right

638
00:31:44,663 --> 00:31:48,698
and I must say I've personally
gone to Schrodingers' house.

639
00:31:48,732 --> 00:31:52,250
I've seen in his house
that he had many cats

640
00:31:52,284 --> 00:31:53,974
and so he loved cats.

641
00:31:55,318 --> 00:31:58,836
So hopefully not
experimented on cats.

642
00:31:58,870 --> 00:32:01,353
Yes, fortunately it's
a thought experiment.

643
00:32:01,387 --> 00:32:04,318
Experimenting on cats.

644
00:32:04,353 --> 00:32:05,836
No.

645
00:32:05,870 --> 00:32:06,870
Never!

646
00:32:13,215 --> 00:32:14,560
Perhaps you remember,

647
00:32:14,594 --> 00:32:16,594
we met six years
ago at Stanford,

648
00:32:16,629 --> 00:32:21,181
and we had a discussion
with a few other people

649
00:32:21,215 --> 00:32:22,525
for morning and lunch

650
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,146
and that was a very
important event in my life.

651
00:32:25,939 --> 00:32:30,318
And since coming here
I've learned a great deal.

652
00:32:30,353 --> 00:32:34,077
I hope to start by
addressing this question

653
00:32:34,112 --> 00:32:36,043
about the nature of matter

654
00:32:36,077 --> 00:32:37,491
and the nature of life.

655
00:32:39,284 --> 00:32:43,043
Now, the single most
important thing we know

656
00:32:43,077 --> 00:32:44,491
is that the world
is made of atoms.

657
00:32:45,663 --> 00:32:49,353
This is a picture of iron
atoms put on a surface

658
00:32:49,387 --> 00:32:50,974
of a piece of metal.

659
00:32:51,008 --> 00:32:53,870
Each of these little
bumps is one atom.

660
00:32:53,905 --> 00:32:57,422
You have to get it very,
very cold for them to stay.

661
00:33:03,077 --> 00:33:05,836
So, maybe it's too cold to move?

662
00:33:07,594 --> 00:33:09,284
Frozen.

663
00:33:09,318 --> 00:33:13,974
Atoms are made of other
particles such as electrons

664
00:33:14,008 --> 00:33:15,250
around the outside.

665
00:33:15,284 --> 00:33:17,008
This is very strange.

666
00:33:17,043 --> 00:33:20,353
Our current understanding
of these particles

667
00:33:20,387 --> 00:33:22,181
is they have no size --

668
00:33:22,215 --> 00:33:24,836
infinitely small,

669
00:33:25,629 --> 00:33:27,939
and we describe the particle

670
00:33:27,974 --> 00:33:31,284
in terms of these field
lines, these fields.

671
00:33:31,318 --> 00:33:34,284
If the atom were the
size of the earth,

672
00:33:34,318 --> 00:33:36,387
the size of this electron

673
00:33:36,422 --> 00:33:38,525
would be smaller
than one millimeter.

674
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,560
So we know it must
be smaller than that.

675
00:33:43,422 --> 00:33:46,215
Now, how do we know that?

676
00:33:46,250 --> 00:33:49,767
We actually take electrons

677
00:33:49,801 --> 00:33:53,008
and we throw them
at another electron.

678
00:33:53,801 --> 00:33:56,663
And if the electron had
size, these particles

679
00:33:56,698 --> 00:34:00,181
of electrons would bounce
from them differently

680
00:34:00,215 --> 00:34:03,422
than if the electron
was just a point.

681
00:34:03,456 --> 00:34:06,112
And we can mathematically
predict which is which

682
00:34:06,146 --> 00:34:10,318
and what we see --
no size, just point.

683
00:34:12,250 --> 00:34:13,698
Whether there is anything,

684
00:34:13,732 --> 00:34:16,077
that is, do they provide
any kind of obstruction

685
00:34:16,112 --> 00:34:17,456
to an incoming entity.

686
00:34:17,491 --> 00:34:19,663
And my impression from
what you just said is yes,

687
00:34:19,698 --> 00:34:21,836
and that is you can
collide two electrons

688
00:34:21,870 --> 00:34:24,284
but they collide as if
they were pure points

689
00:34:24,318 --> 00:34:27,043
rather than having any type
of spatial dimensionality.

690
00:34:27,077 --> 00:34:28,974
You are absolutely correct.

691
00:34:40,732 --> 00:34:42,594
When we speak of simply
the existence of things

692
00:34:42,629 --> 00:34:44,112
in our shared world,

693
00:34:44,146 --> 00:34:46,422
when you posit this,
what is actually

694
00:34:46,456 --> 00:34:49,387
the nature of the electron
itself independently

695
00:34:49,422 --> 00:34:52,525
of its own parts, that type
of ontological analysis,

696
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:53,629
you don't find it.

697
00:34:53,663 --> 00:34:55,112
So, then you are left
with a couple of options,

698
00:34:55,146 --> 00:34:57,491
again you can either say, well,
these elementary particles

699
00:34:57,525 --> 00:34:59,250
and so forth all these
things that we identify,

700
00:34:59,284 --> 00:35:00,560
they do things.

701
00:35:00,594 --> 00:35:02,491
So to say as they're
doing things and things

702
00:35:02,525 --> 00:35:05,146
are done to them that they
don't exist is foolishness.

703
00:35:05,181 --> 00:35:08,801
Every property that I
know of -- it depends.

704
00:35:08,836 --> 00:35:11,525
So when we say the electron

705
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,077
has these intrinsic properties,

706
00:35:13,112 --> 00:35:15,284
we don't say it has
an intrinsic property,

707
00:35:15,318 --> 00:35:17,870
we're not going to talk about
the electron as a being.

708
00:35:17,905 --> 00:35:20,353
It also includes
the interaction,

709
00:35:20,387 --> 00:35:21,974
we have to include
the interaction.

710
00:35:22,008 --> 00:35:23,387
Because that's the observation.

711
00:35:23,422 --> 00:35:25,422
Because in order to even
observe the electron

712
00:35:25,456 --> 00:35:26,663
we need some interaction.

713
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,215
So in that respect,

714
00:35:29,250 --> 00:35:32,353
I don't think it conflicts
with the Buddhist philosophy.

715
00:35:32,387 --> 00:35:35,353
All the others are a matter
of the observation it has,

716
00:35:35,387 --> 00:35:37,008
which means it intimately

717
00:35:37,043 --> 00:35:39,387
is connected with the
rest of the world.

718
00:35:39,422 --> 00:35:41,974
I don't see a conflict,
quite frankly.

719
00:36:07,594 --> 00:36:12,594
I think it may be
worthwhile to explain

720
00:36:16,146 --> 00:36:21,146
about basic structure
of Buddha Dharma.

721
00:36:25,008 --> 00:36:27,974
Now, I speak in
Tibetan. Translate.

722
00:36:32,491 --> 00:36:33,905
After the Buddha's
enlightenment,

723
00:36:33,939 --> 00:36:36,629
the Buddha was reluctant to
actually give a teaching.

724
00:36:36,663 --> 00:36:39,284
There is a beautiful
passage in the scripture

725
00:36:39,318 --> 00:36:41,732
which says that,
"Because I fear that

726
00:36:41,767 --> 00:36:45,767
no one will understand, I
shall remain non-speaking

727
00:36:45,801 --> 00:36:47,767
and remain in the forest."

728
00:36:47,801 --> 00:36:51,456
All the teachings of the Buddha
have been really presented

729
00:36:51,491 --> 00:36:53,422
from the point of view
of the two truths,

730
00:36:53,456 --> 00:36:55,974
and he who does not
understand the two truths

731
00:36:56,008 --> 00:36:59,215
cannot understand the essence
of the Buddha's teaching.

732
00:36:59,250 --> 00:37:02,525
So what we are talking
about here is the two

733
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,181
One is the ultimate
level of reality which

734
00:37:05,215 --> 00:37:07,767
is the emptiness where
nothing can be found.

735
00:37:07,801 --> 00:37:11,525
But there is also
another level of reality

736
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,456
which is the conventional
relative level

737
00:37:13,491 --> 00:37:16,767
on which causes and effects
and everything functions.

738
00:37:16,801 --> 00:37:20,250
And this ability to
distinguish between two levels

739
00:37:20,284 --> 00:37:21,629
of reality and two truths

740
00:37:21,663 --> 00:37:24,215
and understanding
existence in terms of

741
00:37:24,250 --> 00:37:26,629
these two becomes
very important.

742
00:37:26,663 --> 00:37:29,974
In other words Buddha
is saying that it's not

743
00:37:30,008 --> 00:37:32,215
but things don't exist
in the way in which

744
00:37:32,250 --> 00:37:34,112
we tend to assume they do.

745
00:37:34,146 --> 00:37:36,525
They don't exist as
they appear to us.

746
00:37:40,318 --> 00:37:44,043
This is what quantum physics
have also discovered;

747
00:37:44,077 --> 00:37:47,146
as they go deeper into
their understanding

748
00:37:47,181 --> 00:37:50,112
of what makes up the physical
world, they don't find anything.

749
00:37:50,146 --> 00:37:52,801
So they have come to realize
that there is nothing

750
00:37:52,836 --> 00:37:56,181
that supports the objective
reality of the material world

751
00:37:56,215 --> 00:37:57,146
that we assume.

752
00:37:57,181 --> 00:37:59,284
In some sense what
the quantum physics

753
00:37:59,318 --> 00:38:02,112
have come to is
very similar to what

754
00:38:02,146 --> 00:38:04,629
Buddhism has also come to.

755
00:38:04,663 --> 00:38:09,215
And the assumption behind
all of this is that

756
00:38:09,250 --> 00:38:10,560
it should be findable.

757
00:38:10,594 --> 00:38:13,836
Once you mentally deconstruct

758
00:38:13,870 --> 00:38:17,767
what makes up what seems like
an solid thing in front of you,

759
00:38:17,801 --> 00:38:21,905
you'll come to recognize that
nothing stands there as the true

760
00:38:21,939 --> 00:38:24,870
referent to which you can
point and say, this is it.

761
00:38:25,836 --> 00:38:28,732
So therefore Buddha says
that the form is empty.

762
00:38:28,767 --> 00:38:31,732
And then the question arises,
does that mean nothing exists?

763
00:38:32,456 --> 00:38:34,525
Then the second
presentation is made

764
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,905
which is that emptiness is form.

765
00:38:36,939 --> 00:38:41,112
So you cannot accord a
hierarchy of existence

766
00:38:41,146 --> 00:38:46,698
to the matter and mind, both are
devoid of intrinsic existence,

767
00:38:46,732 --> 00:38:51,284
but they do both exist on
the basis of designation

768
00:38:51,318 --> 00:38:52,663
and causes and conditions.

769
00:38:52,698 --> 00:38:54,284
So they have
dependent origination

770
00:38:54,318 --> 00:38:56,353
but they don't have
intrinsic existence.

771
00:39:20,456 --> 00:39:22,284
The scientific dialogues

772
00:39:22,318 --> 00:39:25,181
covered the field of
cognitive science, as well.

773
00:39:25,215 --> 00:39:28,008
Emotion which is
based on ignorance,

774
00:39:28,043 --> 00:39:33,594
such as strong anger, hatred

775
00:39:33,629 --> 00:39:36,698
and also attachment.

776
00:39:36,732 --> 00:39:39,629
One of my American
friends, one scientist,

777
00:39:41,146 --> 00:39:45,801
Aaron Beck, he mentioned,
when we develop anger,

778
00:39:45,836 --> 00:39:50,732
the object which we feel angry
at appears very negative,

779
00:39:50,767 --> 00:39:54,456
but actually, ninety percent
of that negative-ness

780
00:39:54,491 --> 00:39:56,077
is mental projection.

781
00:39:58,250 --> 00:40:01,008
What we find is that when
we get a negative image

782
00:40:01,043 --> 00:40:05,112
of somebody else and
it stays on and on,

783
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,112
we start to attack
the other person.

784
00:40:10,146 --> 00:40:12,801
But actually we're
attacking the image.

785
00:40:12,836 --> 00:40:16,491
By attacking this
image of the person

786
00:40:16,525 --> 00:40:18,870
we're actually injuring a person

787
00:40:18,905 --> 00:40:20,939
who may be nothing
like the image.

788
00:40:20,974 --> 00:40:23,801
So the more we have
the negative image

789
00:40:23,836 --> 00:40:24,767
of the person,

790
00:40:24,801 --> 00:40:26,767
the more we're
going to attack him.

791
00:40:26,801 --> 00:40:29,663
But it's always the
image that we're having

792
00:40:29,698 --> 00:40:31,250
that is bothering us,

793
00:40:31,284 --> 00:40:32,629
not the real person.

794
00:40:32,663 --> 00:40:35,146
So we talked about
delusion before,

795
00:40:35,181 --> 00:40:38,698
in a way a lot of hatred
is based on a delusion.

796
00:40:38,732 --> 00:40:43,663
But it's also between countries,
nations, ethnic groups.

797
00:40:43,698 --> 00:40:46,008
They tend to have
kind of an image,

798
00:40:46,043 --> 00:40:48,870
a mental image of
the other people

799
00:40:48,905 --> 00:40:50,870
as some way subhuman.

800
00:40:50,905 --> 00:40:54,215
Let's say when the Germans
would have pictures

801
00:40:54,250 --> 00:40:56,974
of the Russians
during World War Two

802
00:40:57,008 --> 00:41:01,698
they'd show the Russians
as looking like beasts,

803
00:41:01,732 --> 00:41:02,836
wild beasts.

804
00:41:02,870 --> 00:41:05,767
Then of course the
people found it's okay

805
00:41:05,801 --> 00:41:07,422
to shoot wild beasts

806
00:41:07,456 --> 00:41:09,836
because they're not
human beings anymore.

807
00:41:09,870 --> 00:41:13,077
So I think a similar
Buddhist concept,

808
00:41:13,112 --> 00:41:15,560
all these negative emotions

809
00:41:15,594 --> 00:41:19,146
are based on ignorance
or misconception.

810
00:41:19,181 --> 00:41:21,836
Your Holiness if we just
depart for one moment,

811
00:41:21,870 --> 00:41:25,284
you mentioned about the
broad perspective before,

812
00:41:25,318 --> 00:41:27,456
and I think much
of the unhappiness

813
00:41:27,491 --> 00:41:28,629
that individuals have

814
00:41:28,663 --> 00:41:30,974
is because they
lose perspective.

815
00:41:31,008 --> 00:41:33,939
And I thought I'd
give you an example.

816
00:41:33,974 --> 00:41:36,008
There was some time ago

817
00:41:36,043 --> 00:41:41,112
I was asked to consult
about a professor of physics

818
00:41:41,146 --> 00:41:45,422
and he thought that he had
made a very great discovery

819
00:41:45,456 --> 00:41:48,801
which might give
him the Nobel Prize.

820
00:41:48,836 --> 00:41:52,422
And, um, he got passed over.

821
00:41:52,456 --> 00:41:54,560
He did not get the Nobel Prize

822
00:41:54,594 --> 00:41:56,870
and so he was depressed.

823
00:41:56,905 --> 00:41:58,146
And so I said,

824
00:41:58,181 --> 00:42:02,318
"Well, how important a part
of your life was this prize?"

825
00:42:02,353 --> 00:42:04,870
And he said, "A
hundred percent."

826
00:42:04,905 --> 00:42:06,387
So I asked him, I said,

827
00:42:06,422 --> 00:42:08,318
"Do you have a family?"

828
00:42:08,353 --> 00:42:09,629
And he said, "Oh yes."

829
00:42:09,663 --> 00:42:12,663
And I said, "Well, how important
is your family to you?"

830
00:42:12,698 --> 00:42:16,870
So he said, "My wife
-- twenty percent."

831
00:42:16,905 --> 00:42:19,077
And I said, "Do
you have children?"

832
00:42:19,112 --> 00:42:21,422
And he said, "Yes, I
have three children."

833
00:42:21,456 --> 00:42:24,525
And I said, "How important
are they to you?"

834
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:29,146
And he said, "Oh, I guess
they're about forty percent."

835
00:42:29,181 --> 00:42:32,491
And then I said, "Do you get to
see your children very much?"

836
00:42:32,525 --> 00:42:36,939
He said, "Well no. I've
had so much time working

837
00:42:36,974 --> 00:42:39,353
on my physics
project that I really

838
00:42:39,387 --> 00:42:41,146
haven't spent much
time with them."

839
00:42:41,181 --> 00:42:44,422
And I said, "How do
you feel about that?"

840
00:42:44,456 --> 00:42:47,077
And then he started to weep

841
00:42:47,112 --> 00:42:49,905
and I said, "Why
are you weeping?"

842
00:42:49,939 --> 00:42:52,801
He said, "It reminded me
when I was growing up,

843
00:42:52,836 --> 00:42:57,043
that's just the way
my father was to me.

844
00:42:57,077 --> 00:43:00,250
And so now I suddenly realized

845
00:43:00,284 --> 00:43:01,939
what I am missing out on,

846
00:43:01,974 --> 00:43:04,284
my father missed out on it,
and I'm missing out on it

847
00:43:04,318 --> 00:43:06,422
and of course my children
are missing out."

848
00:43:06,456 --> 00:43:07,525
So, I said,

849
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,594
"Now how important are
your children to you now?"

850
00:43:09,629 --> 00:43:11,491
And he said, "eighty percent."

851
00:43:11,525 --> 00:43:14,422
Anyhow, he left the office

852
00:43:14,456 --> 00:43:16,422
and he wasn't
depressed any more.

853
00:43:23,698 --> 00:43:25,698
Oh, very wise. Wise.

854
00:43:25,732 --> 00:43:27,767
I think that
method, that method,

855
00:43:27,801 --> 00:43:32,353
that we call exactly
analytical meditation.

856
00:43:32,387 --> 00:43:33,318
Oh, really?

857
00:43:33,353 --> 00:43:34,353
Yes.

858
00:43:38,215 --> 00:43:41,353
Sometimes, I express
that compared

859
00:43:41,387 --> 00:43:43,112
to ancient Indian psychology,

860
00:43:43,146 --> 00:43:45,284
particularly
Buddhist psychology,

861
00:43:45,318 --> 00:43:49,181
modern psychology looks
like the kindergarten level.

862
00:43:52,525 --> 00:43:54,698
Well, I'm a secularist.

863
00:43:54,732 --> 00:43:58,043
The only reason I
met the Dalai Lama

864
00:43:58,077 --> 00:44:00,181
was because of my daughter.

865
00:44:00,215 --> 00:44:02,215
And I knew that
if you got invited

866
00:44:02,250 --> 00:44:04,974
to his palace in Dharamsala

867
00:44:05,008 --> 00:44:07,560
you got to bring
a single observer.

868
00:44:07,594 --> 00:44:10,250
And I thought what a kick
this would be for my daughter.

869
00:44:10,284 --> 00:44:12,215
And so although I thought
this was just another

870
00:44:12,250 --> 00:44:15,456
one of the Bay Area
fads, I figured, okay,

871
00:44:15,491 --> 00:44:17,560
I'll make an exception. I'll go.

872
00:44:18,422 --> 00:44:20,353
We start with Paul Ekman,

873
00:44:20,387 --> 00:44:22,387
Professor of
Psychology and Director

874
00:44:22,422 --> 00:44:24,284
of the Laboratory
for Human Interaction

875
00:44:24,318 --> 00:44:26,284
at the University of California

876
00:44:26,318 --> 00:44:28,284
medical school in San Francisco.

877
00:44:28,318 --> 00:44:30,836
But what you really
should know about him

878
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:33,284
is that he is a
master of the face

879
00:44:33,318 --> 00:44:36,698
and of emotions, and
of reading emotions,

880
00:44:36,732 --> 00:44:38,560
and he has more
than thirty years

881
00:44:38,594 --> 00:44:40,525
of world class research.

882
00:44:41,491 --> 00:44:43,318
For inexplicable reasons,

883
00:44:43,353 --> 00:44:45,181
he and I really connected.

884
00:44:45,215 --> 00:44:47,215
I felt like I'd known
him all my life.

885
00:44:48,250 --> 00:44:51,284
And that the function of emotion

886
00:44:51,318 --> 00:44:55,284
is to get us moving, active,

887
00:44:55,318 --> 00:44:58,422
very quickly, without
having to think.

888
00:44:58,456 --> 00:45:01,387
But many, many,
most of the things

889
00:45:01,422 --> 00:45:04,284
we become emotional
about are things

890
00:45:04,318 --> 00:45:06,939
we have learned in the
course of growing up.

891
00:45:06,974 --> 00:45:09,077
And the issue which
I will get to later

892
00:45:09,112 --> 00:45:11,181
is can we unlearn some of them.

893
00:45:13,422 --> 00:45:17,767
So what I have been
doing is trying

894
00:45:17,801 --> 00:45:22,801
to distinguish many
different important states,

895
00:45:22,836 --> 00:45:27,732
the emotions, the moods,
resentment, hatred.

896
00:45:27,767 --> 00:45:30,767
One of the reasons why we have

897
00:45:30,801 --> 00:45:34,284
so much difficulty once
we become emotional

898
00:45:34,318 --> 00:45:39,525
is that the emotion
itself enslaves us.

899
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,974
There is what I would like
to call a refractory period,

900
00:45:44,008 --> 00:45:46,698
that is a period in
which new information

901
00:45:46,732 --> 00:45:51,905
doesn't enter or if it enters
it is, interpretation is biased.

902
00:45:51,939 --> 00:45:56,077
Now a refractory period
may be only a few seconds,

903
00:45:56,112 --> 00:45:58,284
or it may be much longer.

904
00:45:59,422 --> 00:46:04,250
As long as it's occurring
we can't get out of the grip

905
00:46:04,284 --> 00:46:05,594
of that emotion.

906
00:46:05,629 --> 00:46:08,112
I want to say that after um,

907
00:46:09,353 --> 00:46:11,043
spending more than thirty-five

908
00:46:11,077 --> 00:46:12,767
years studying emotion,

909
00:46:12,801 --> 00:46:16,215
I am impressed about how
little we still know about it.

910
00:46:17,974 --> 00:46:19,870
When we met and tried to think,

911
00:46:19,905 --> 00:46:21,456
what do we mean by
destructive emotions,

912
00:46:21,491 --> 00:46:22,905
we came up with the definition:

913
00:46:22,939 --> 00:46:25,387
emotions that harm
self or others.

914
00:46:25,422 --> 00:46:27,422
Your definition is

915
00:46:27,456 --> 00:46:28,353
extremely subtle.

916
00:46:28,387 --> 00:46:29,939
Your definition of
destructive emotions

917
00:46:29,974 --> 00:46:32,456
is what disturbs the
calm of the mind.

918
00:46:32,491 --> 00:46:33,939
Yes.

919
00:46:33,974 --> 00:46:34,663
I'm Buddhist.

920
00:46:34,698 --> 00:46:36,905
My ultimate goal is Buddhahood.

921
00:46:36,939 --> 00:46:38,422
This is my business.

922
00:46:40,491 --> 00:46:43,146
How can we educate our emotions,

923
00:46:43,181 --> 00:46:47,284
by what means, without
becoming Buddhists?

924
00:46:47,318 --> 00:46:48,663
Yes, that's right.

925
00:46:49,284 --> 00:46:54,250
[speaking in Tibetan]

926
00:46:58,284 --> 00:47:00,077
[translator] So therefore,
there's a possibility

927
00:47:00,112 --> 00:47:02,801
here that even
though the grasping

928
00:47:02,836 --> 00:47:05,767
at the intrinsic reality
of self or whatever it is,

929
00:47:05,801 --> 00:47:07,387
the object, has arisen,

930
00:47:08,181 --> 00:47:11,663
one could prolong the
causal sort of process

931
00:47:11,698 --> 00:47:14,939
between that
instance of grasping

932
00:47:14,974 --> 00:47:17,422
and the actual arisal
of the affliction.

933
00:47:18,284 --> 00:47:23,250
[speaking in Tibetan]

934
00:47:32,284 --> 00:47:35,456
[translator] In terms of really
a precise analysis of what takes
place,

935
00:47:35,491 --> 00:47:37,560
let's say in the
first instance of apprehending a
flower,

936
00:47:37,594 --> 00:47:39,525
the very first instant
you simply apprehend

937
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,284
the flower without reification.

938
00:47:41,318 --> 00:47:42,905
You're simply apprehending
the flower itself.

939
00:47:42,939 --> 00:47:43,870
In the next instant...

940
00:47:45,284 --> 00:47:46,836
And that is a valid cognition.

941
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:47,939
But normally speaking,

942
00:47:47,974 --> 00:47:50,698
in the second instant then
there's the reification

943
00:47:50,732 --> 00:47:51,905
of the flower.

944
00:47:51,939 --> 00:47:54,008
As soon as that reification
of the flower takes place,

945
00:47:54,043 --> 00:47:55,284
then you're into
a false cognition.

946
00:47:55,318 --> 00:47:56,801
And so His Holiness
concludes here

947
00:47:56,836 --> 00:47:59,284
it is to be seen
whether you can find

948
00:47:59,318 --> 00:48:03,250
the precise neural correlate
of the mere apprehension

949
00:48:03,284 --> 00:48:05,594
of the flower, versus
the very next instant

950
00:48:05,629 --> 00:48:08,215
of the reification
of the flower.

951
00:48:12,043 --> 00:48:14,353
And so it would be
very interesting

952
00:48:14,387 --> 00:48:15,767
to see whether by
studying the brain,

953
00:48:15,801 --> 00:48:17,801
you will be able to
discern the difference

954
00:48:17,836 --> 00:48:21,353
between a valid cognition
and an invalid cognition.

955
00:48:45,077 --> 00:48:50,077
In addition, the
dialogues focused on the

956
00:48:51,318 --> 00:48:54,560
Neurobiology -- oh wonderful.

957
00:48:55,284 --> 00:48:57,594
I think if we
properly sort of study

958
00:48:57,629 --> 00:49:00,732
these and get some knowledge,

959
00:49:00,767 --> 00:49:04,767
I think it can serve seven
billion human beings.

960
00:49:04,801 --> 00:49:07,560
The Dalai Lama invited
me to come meet with him

961
00:49:07,594 --> 00:49:08,974
because he was
interested in catalyzing

962
00:49:09,008 --> 00:49:12,905
serious neuroscientific
research on the mind

963
00:49:12,939 --> 00:49:15,905
and brains of
Tibetan practitioners

964
00:49:15,939 --> 00:49:18,112
that spent years
cultivating their minds.

965
00:49:18,146 --> 00:49:21,525
And in fact on that
momentous day in 1992,

966
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,181
he was quite stern in a way,

967
00:49:23,215 --> 00:49:24,974
and challenged me and he said,

968
00:49:25,008 --> 00:49:28,491
"You've been using the
tools of modern neuroscience

969
00:49:28,525 --> 00:49:33,732
to investigate depression and
anxiety and stress and fear.

970
00:49:33,767 --> 00:49:35,663
Why can't you use
those same tools

971
00:49:35,698 --> 00:49:38,043
to study kindness
and compassion?"

972
00:49:38,077 --> 00:49:40,353
And for me it was a wakeup call.

973
00:49:40,387 --> 00:49:42,318
I didn't have a very
good answer other than,

974
00:49:42,353 --> 00:49:43,318
that it's hard.

975
00:49:44,525 --> 00:49:46,077
Scientific collaboration

976
00:49:46,112 --> 00:49:48,318
and research began in earnest,

977
00:49:48,353 --> 00:49:51,215
even though neuroscientist
Francisco Varela

978
00:49:51,250 --> 00:49:53,318
became seriously ill.

979
00:49:53,353 --> 00:49:55,387
And a conference on neuroscience

980
00:49:55,422 --> 00:49:57,284
was organized in
the year of 2000

981
00:49:57,318 --> 00:49:59,560
for the presentation
of their results.

982
00:50:01,870 --> 00:50:03,491
I wanted to tell you,

983
00:50:04,387 --> 00:50:08,353
you know, Francisco
got very ill in 1997

984
00:50:08,387 --> 00:50:10,663
with the cancer and
then after that he had

985
00:50:10,698 --> 00:50:13,181
to make the decision to
have the transplantation

986
00:50:13,215 --> 00:50:14,146
of the liver.

987
00:50:14,181 --> 00:50:17,008
He had to decide
to die or to live.

988
00:50:17,043 --> 00:50:18,801
And at that time he was thinking

989
00:50:18,836 --> 00:50:21,077
that he did not want
to do the transplant.

990
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,215
Then he received a fax
from you where you said,

991
00:50:25,250 --> 00:50:27,250
"You must do everything
to get healthy

992
00:50:27,284 --> 00:50:30,560
and keep working and
practicing and doing science."

993
00:50:30,594 --> 00:50:31,836
And he said,

994
00:50:31,870 --> 00:50:33,146
"this is a message to me

995
00:50:33,181 --> 00:50:35,629
to make the right
decision, to live."

996
00:50:35,663 --> 00:50:37,146
And he made the right decision.

997
00:50:37,181 --> 00:50:38,939
Thanks to you.

998
00:50:41,043 --> 00:50:43,112
Strong feeling of reunion.

999
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,284
Thank you.

1000
00:51:07,250 --> 00:51:11,594
One of my oldest
friends. Great scientist.

1001
00:51:20,732 --> 00:51:21,353
Your Holiness,

1002
00:51:21,387 --> 00:51:24,318
this afternoon or now,

1003
00:51:24,353 --> 00:51:28,767
what I'd like to
turn to is the theme

1004
00:51:28,801 --> 00:51:31,594
of the meeting on
destructive emotions,

1005
00:51:31,629 --> 00:51:34,422
and talk about some antidotes

1006
00:51:34,456 --> 00:51:38,146
to destructive emotions
and how we can think about

1007
00:51:38,181 --> 00:51:43,146
those antidotes in
neuroscientific terms.

1008
00:51:43,181 --> 00:51:47,284
And one question
which we have pursued,

1009
00:51:47,318 --> 00:51:51,560
whether meditation
will have effects

1010
00:51:51,594 --> 00:51:55,043
in a long term way on
this area of the brain.

1011
00:51:55,077 --> 00:51:56,663
A more formal experiment

1012
00:51:56,698 --> 00:51:59,387
that we have recently completed

1013
00:52:01,043 --> 00:52:02,560
with Jon Kabat-Zinn,

1014
00:52:02,594 --> 00:52:05,008
who presented to Your Holiness

1015
00:52:05,043 --> 00:52:07,284
at a previous Mind
& Life meeting.

1016
00:52:07,318 --> 00:52:09,594
Jon Kabat-Zinn

1017
00:52:09,629 --> 00:52:13,698
has been developing methods to

1018
00:52:13,732 --> 00:52:16,387
use mindfulness meditation

1019
00:52:16,422 --> 00:52:20,008
in a large variety
of populations,

1020
00:52:20,043 --> 00:52:23,181
including medical patients,

1021
00:52:23,215 --> 00:52:25,284
employees in the workplace;

1022
00:52:25,318 --> 00:52:27,974
he conducted the
training himself.

1023
00:52:28,008 --> 00:52:30,732
We wanted to explore the extent

1024
00:52:30,767 --> 00:52:34,594
to which these factors of

1025
00:52:34,629 --> 00:52:37,008
brain activity can be changed

1026
00:52:37,043 --> 00:52:38,594
in normal lay people.

1027
00:52:38,629 --> 00:52:40,836
The logic in this experiment

1028
00:52:40,870 --> 00:52:43,629
was to see whether
antidotes to stress,

1029
00:52:43,663 --> 00:52:44,698
meditation,

1030
00:52:44,732 --> 00:52:46,387
can have a beneficial effect

1031
00:52:46,422 --> 00:52:48,008
on the immune system.

1032
00:52:48,905 --> 00:52:52,456
So, at the end of the
study, the participants

1033
00:52:52,491 --> 00:52:54,491
got the vaccine.

1034
00:52:54,525 --> 00:52:58,525
The finding that we
are actually the most

1035
00:53:00,284 --> 00:53:03,284
excited about because
it's so unusual

1036
00:53:03,318 --> 00:53:05,525
and it has never been
demonstrated before,

1037
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,008
and that is when
we vaccinated them

1038
00:53:08,043 --> 00:53:10,250
with the influenza vaccine,

1039
00:53:10,974 --> 00:53:13,077
we actually find that

1040
00:53:13,112 --> 00:53:15,387
the meditation group shows

1041
00:53:15,422 --> 00:53:19,836
a stronger response to
the influenza vaccine

1042
00:53:19,870 --> 00:53:22,767
compared to the control group.

1043
00:53:22,801 --> 00:53:26,353
We will be repeating
this study with

1044
00:53:26,387 --> 00:53:28,836
measures using MRI

1045
00:53:28,870 --> 00:53:31,767
which allow us to look
deep within the brain

1046
00:53:31,801 --> 00:53:33,560
so that we can actually
look at the amygdala.

1047
00:53:33,594 --> 00:53:36,043
We are energized with vigor

1048
00:53:36,077 --> 00:53:38,284
and zeal to pursue this

1049
00:53:38,318 --> 00:53:40,387
in the future and we hope to

1050
00:53:40,422 --> 00:53:43,112
continue this kind
of collaboration.

1051
00:53:43,146 --> 00:53:46,387
Um, Your Holiness, like
my colleagues before,

1052
00:53:46,422 --> 00:53:51,422
just a little, a little,
thought before we begin.

1053
00:53:53,456 --> 00:53:54,801
It seems to me truly wondrous

1054
00:53:54,836 --> 00:53:57,870
that I am here again
with you once more.

1055
00:54:00,698 --> 00:54:03,422
We have done experiments
with audition,

1056
00:54:03,456 --> 00:54:04,387
with memory,

1057
00:54:04,422 --> 00:54:07,077
with conflict of
attention between

1058
00:54:07,112 --> 00:54:08,594
visual and auditory.

1059
00:54:08,629 --> 00:54:10,250
The answer is always the same --

1060
00:54:10,284 --> 00:54:13,008
the transitoriness
of mental factors,

1061
00:54:13,043 --> 00:54:14,698
it is like they
come and they go.

1062
00:54:14,732 --> 00:54:16,181
And what we have here

1063
00:54:16,215 --> 00:54:18,387
is a correlate in
this green stuff.

1064
00:54:18,422 --> 00:54:20,284
That was for me
the big discovery,

1065
00:54:20,318 --> 00:54:23,250
that the brain
actively undoes itself,

1066
00:54:23,284 --> 00:54:25,008
so it creates like gaps,

1067
00:54:25,043 --> 00:54:26,836
where you know the transition

1068
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:28,594
from one moment to the next

1069
00:54:28,629 --> 00:54:29,594
is actually marked.

1070
00:54:29,629 --> 00:54:30,905
So, you have recognition

1071
00:54:30,939 --> 00:54:33,594
and then action, but
they are punctuated.

1072
00:54:33,629 --> 00:54:35,043
It's like you know saying,

1073
00:54:35,077 --> 00:54:38,560
perception, comma, action.

1074
00:54:38,594 --> 00:54:41,250
You don't just put
them in a flow,

1075
00:54:41,284 --> 00:54:42,077
in a continuum.

1076
00:54:42,112 --> 00:54:44,146
This is again what
we were talking

1077
00:54:44,181 --> 00:54:45,146
about the other day --

1078
00:54:45,181 --> 00:54:46,353
that time lasts a

1079
00:54:46,387 --> 00:54:47,905
little bit, and
in fact it lasts,

1080
00:54:47,939 --> 00:54:50,043
here you can see
the first moment

1081
00:54:50,077 --> 00:54:51,318
of time of the recognition

1082
00:54:51,353 --> 00:54:52,870
is about a third of a second,

1083
00:54:52,905 --> 00:54:56,215
then another same,
similar moment

1084
00:54:56,250 --> 00:54:59,387
when you do an action,

1085
00:54:59,422 --> 00:55:01,112
which is pushing the button.

1086
00:55:01,146 --> 00:55:02,801
This is systematic.

1087
00:55:02,836 --> 00:55:05,215
We've seen this in all kinds
of different conditions.

1088
00:55:15,112 --> 00:55:17,284
His Holiness is interested
to see whether you agree

1089
00:55:17,318 --> 00:55:18,939
that this corroborates a
point of Buddhist psychology,

1090
00:55:22,663 --> 00:55:24,008
and that is in the first moment

1091
00:55:24,043 --> 00:55:25,318
it is purely visual perception

1092
00:55:25,353 --> 00:55:26,560
which is not conceptual.

1093
00:55:26,594 --> 00:55:27,939
And the second moment,

1094
00:55:27,974 --> 00:55:30,284
whatever that moment
whatever the duration

1095
00:55:30,318 --> 00:55:31,594
of that moment happens to be,

1096
00:55:31,629 --> 00:55:33,732
then the conceptual mind

1097
00:55:33,767 --> 00:55:35,491
apprehends, this is this.

1098
00:55:35,525 --> 00:55:36,525
Absolutely.

1099
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:41,008
You cannot compress a
moment beyond typically

1100
00:55:41,043 --> 00:55:43,491
normal conditions
150 milliseconds.

1101
00:55:43,525 --> 00:55:45,629
Even if It's something
almost immediate,

1102
00:55:45,663 --> 00:55:47,905
it's about 150 milliseconds.

1103
00:55:47,939 --> 00:55:50,629
This moment of arising
is another whumph.

1104
00:55:51,767 --> 00:55:54,422
So the brain works
by these whumps.

1105
00:55:54,456 --> 00:55:55,629
And whatever it is,

1106
00:55:55,663 --> 00:55:57,974
whether it is visual
perception of the field,

1107
00:55:58,008 --> 00:56:00,387
whether it is the
close your eyes

1108
00:56:00,422 --> 00:56:01,594
and you have a mental image,

1109
00:56:01,629 --> 00:56:02,663
it is the same thing.

1110
00:56:02,698 --> 00:56:04,836
Now to really conclude,
Your Holiness,

1111
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:07,284
my point is that this
was done with somebody

1112
00:56:07,318 --> 00:56:10,284
who is not really
highly trained,

1113
00:56:10,318 --> 00:56:12,146
but we, know what we want to do

1114
00:56:12,181 --> 00:56:14,215
is to take highly trained people

1115
00:56:14,250 --> 00:56:16,181
like meditators who can actually

1116
00:56:16,215 --> 00:56:18,525
go into much more finer detail,

1117
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:20,560
what was the moment
of experience?

1118
00:56:20,594 --> 00:56:21,422
And for example,

1119
00:56:21,456 --> 00:56:23,077
we want to work
with the monasteries

1120
00:56:23,112 --> 00:56:25,698
in Dordogne in the
south of France,

1121
00:56:25,732 --> 00:56:26,663
and in May, for example,

1122
00:56:26,698 --> 00:56:29,422
we hope to have
Matthieu come to the lab

1123
00:56:29,456 --> 00:56:31,594
and do these kinds
of experiments.

1124
00:56:31,629 --> 00:56:33,215
So, if we can find differences

1125
00:56:33,250 --> 00:56:34,939
even with ordinary people,

1126
00:56:34,974 --> 00:56:37,284
then with more expert
people we should

1127
00:56:37,318 --> 00:56:40,043
be able to really go
into much finer detail.

1128
00:56:40,077 --> 00:56:42,525
So with that thought
I wanted to conclude,

1129
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,387
because this is where, to me,

1130
00:56:44,422 --> 00:56:46,905
there's a true possibility
of collaboration,

1131
00:56:46,939 --> 00:56:49,112
not just in principle

1132
00:56:49,146 --> 00:56:50,491
but in a very concrete sense.

1133
00:56:50,525 --> 00:56:52,594
Thank you very
much, Your Holiness.

1134
00:56:56,732 --> 00:56:59,422
Francisco Varela, Richard
Davidson and others

1135
00:56:59,456 --> 00:57:03,525
invited scientifically
trained Matthieu Ricard,

1136
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:05,767
who had received a PhD
in Molecular Genetics

1137
00:57:05,801 --> 00:57:06,974
before he became a monk,

1138
00:57:07,008 --> 00:57:09,284
to help them craft the
experimental design.

1139
00:57:09,318 --> 00:57:14,284
All this scientific
sort of research work.

1140
00:57:15,008 --> 00:57:16,594
Oh wonderful.

1141
00:57:16,629 --> 00:57:18,456
Now you bring into
the laboratory

1142
00:57:18,491 --> 00:57:19,732
somebody like Matthieu,

1143
00:57:19,767 --> 00:57:22,525
complete stable mind,

1144
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,284
no distractions, no thoughts.

1145
00:57:25,318 --> 00:57:28,629
So when the stimulus
comes, he's always ready.

1146
00:57:28,663 --> 00:57:31,491
And the results are
completely different.

1147
00:57:31,525 --> 00:57:34,387
Meditators who are experienced,

1148
00:57:34,422 --> 00:57:36,801
are masters of precisely

1149
00:57:36,836 --> 00:57:39,974
being able to become aware of
what happens in their minds.

1150
00:57:40,008 --> 00:57:44,146
And these first person
methods are a radical

1151
00:57:44,181 --> 00:57:45,801
departure from
classical science.

1152
00:57:45,836 --> 00:57:49,043
One is disembodied, impersonal.

1153
00:57:49,077 --> 00:57:52,387
The other one is fully
embodied, totally situated.

1154
00:57:52,422 --> 00:57:54,698
So here we have an occasion

1155
00:57:54,732 --> 00:57:58,353
to really bring very
much into the hard core

1156
00:57:58,387 --> 00:58:01,801
of research in science
that idea. Why?

1157
00:58:01,836 --> 00:58:04,112
Because it is interesting
for science, the question

1158
00:58:04,146 --> 00:58:06,250
of how to study consciousness.

1159
00:58:06,284 --> 00:58:08,560
Both of them can
give us knowledge.

1160
00:58:08,594 --> 00:58:09,629
In both of them,

1161
00:58:09,663 --> 00:58:12,112
you can have good science.

1162
00:58:13,043 --> 00:58:16,801
They found certain
sort of knowledge,

1163
00:58:16,836 --> 00:58:17,974
oh wonderful,

1164
00:58:18,008 --> 00:58:21,456
is not just speculation,

1165
00:58:21,491 --> 00:58:24,318
but they actually found through,

1166
00:58:24,353 --> 00:58:26,525
or proved through, experiment.

1167
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,456
This is an image of her brain,

1168
00:58:29,491 --> 00:58:33,663
if we split the brain
in half, like that.

1169
00:58:35,318 --> 00:58:39,215
Now we are going to do
a demonstration for you,

1170
00:58:39,250 --> 00:58:40,387
Your Holiness.

1171
00:58:42,767 --> 00:58:46,560
So you can, you can see
actually that the areas

1172
00:58:46,594 --> 00:58:50,146
are much more extensive
during mental activities.

1173
00:58:50,181 --> 00:58:51,146
Yes, yes, that's right.

1174
00:58:53,284 --> 00:58:55,767
[speaking in Tibetan]

1175
00:58:56,939 --> 00:59:02,008
Well, actually, in dreaming,
the brain is very active.

1176
00:59:02,043 --> 00:59:05,318
And that has been studied
with these techniques,

1177
00:59:05,353 --> 00:59:08,905
and there is activation in
all of the sensory areas.

1178
00:59:08,939 --> 00:59:11,112
So actually, that's very true.

1179
00:59:18,905 --> 00:59:22,491
With the MRI we get
spatial resolution,

1180
00:59:22,525 --> 00:59:24,422
so very fine spatial resolution.

1181
00:59:24,456 --> 00:59:28,043
With the EEG we get
time resolution,

1182
00:59:28,077 --> 00:59:29,043
things that are very fast.

1183
00:59:29,077 --> 00:59:30,974
With this we're after
chemical resolution

1184
00:59:31,008 --> 00:59:33,594
and chemical selectivity.

1185
00:59:33,629 --> 00:59:36,836
That's the real advantage
of using this particular

1186
00:59:36,870 --> 00:59:38,250
imaging versus something else.

1187
00:59:38,284 --> 00:59:39,905
We can be very selective

1188
00:59:39,939 --> 00:59:41,387
about the chemistry
that we look at.

1189
00:59:43,284 --> 00:59:46,215
Then the instrument
itself, also wonderful,

1190
00:59:47,077 --> 00:59:48,422
very sophisticated,

1191
00:59:49,698 --> 00:59:51,284
oh wonderful.

1192
00:59:51,318 --> 00:59:52,629
Must be very expensive.

1193
00:59:56,698 --> 00:59:58,525
Unexpectedly,

1194
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:01,836
just months before they were
to meet again in person,

1195
01:00:01,870 --> 01:00:05,974
Francisco Varela's health
failed him for the final time.

1196
01:00:06,008 --> 01:00:08,836
He lost his long struggle
with liver cancer.

1197
01:00:10,801 --> 01:00:13,043
He became terminally ill.

1198
01:00:14,491 --> 01:00:16,491
Our last conversation,

1199
01:00:16,525 --> 01:00:18,629
not face to face,

1200
01:00:18,663 --> 01:00:21,491
but through modern technology,

1201
01:00:21,525 --> 01:00:23,008
through video,

1202
01:00:23,043 --> 01:00:28,043
from Madison to Paris, isn't it.

1203
01:00:29,905 --> 01:00:31,698
That's very moving.

1204
01:00:31,732 --> 01:00:33,560
Good morning

1205
01:00:34,353 --> 01:00:35,422
my dear friend.

1206
01:00:37,836 --> 01:00:40,387
And in some sense
I also consider

1207
01:00:40,422 --> 01:00:42,905
you as a spiritual brother.

1208
01:00:42,939 --> 01:00:45,801
I was with Francisco when
the Dalai Lama called.

1209
01:00:45,836 --> 01:00:47,698
He could no longer move.

1210
01:00:47,732 --> 01:00:49,594
He could no longer talk.

1211
01:00:49,629 --> 01:00:52,008
But he was watching
so strongly the screen

1212
01:00:52,043 --> 01:00:54,077
with the Dalai Lama
speaking to him,

1213
01:00:54,112 --> 01:00:56,732
that I thought he was going
to dive into the screen,

1214
01:00:56,767 --> 01:00:59,905
as if it were a swimming pool.

1215
01:00:59,939 --> 01:01:02,250
He was in the screen with him.

1216
01:01:02,974 --> 01:01:05,491
And it was a very,
very moving moment

1217
01:01:05,525 --> 01:01:07,353
for everyone who was there.

1218
01:01:08,284 --> 01:01:12,043
So I wanted to express my,

1219
01:01:12,767 --> 01:01:17,043
uh, deep feeling to you,

1220
01:01:18,112 --> 01:01:19,112
as a human brother.

1221
01:01:20,594 --> 01:01:22,284
And your contribution

1222
01:01:24,767 --> 01:01:26,594
in science --

1223
01:01:26,629 --> 01:01:27,870
I think you made,

1224
01:01:27,905 --> 01:01:31,318
especially in neurology

1225
01:01:31,353 --> 01:01:34,870
you made great sort
of contribution.

1226
01:01:34,905 --> 01:01:37,836
And then also in our work,

1227
01:01:37,870 --> 01:01:39,629
some kind of dialogue

1228
01:01:39,663 --> 01:01:42,043
between science

1229
01:01:42,077 --> 01:01:44,698
and Buddhist science of mind,

1230
01:01:46,181 --> 01:01:47,870
and also some other field,

1231
01:01:48,663 --> 01:01:50,594
I think you made
great contribution.

1232
01:01:52,043 --> 01:01:54,043
So we never forget that.

1233
01:01:54,732 --> 01:01:55,974
Until my death,

1234
01:01:56,008 --> 01:01:59,836
I will remember you.

1235
01:02:00,801 --> 01:02:03,387
One year later Francisco's
wife and son met

1236
01:02:03,422 --> 01:02:05,939
with the Dalai Lama,
in remembrance.

1237
01:02:09,077 --> 01:02:10,594
How old are you?

1238
01:02:10,629 --> 01:02:11,250
Ten.

1239
01:02:13,905 --> 01:02:16,387
So, before you
come to this world,

1240
01:02:16,422 --> 01:02:19,491
I already know your father.

1241
01:02:23,077 --> 01:02:24,767
So great, really great.

1242
01:02:28,525 --> 01:02:29,905
The Dalai Lama told me

1243
01:02:29,939 --> 01:02:32,663
that he always has this
photo of Francisco with him,

1244
01:02:32,698 --> 01:02:34,732
and that he takes it with him,

1245
01:02:34,767 --> 01:02:35,732
whenever he travels,

1246
01:02:35,767 --> 01:02:36,698
wherever he goes,

1247
01:02:36,732 --> 01:02:38,836
to this day still.

1248
01:02:40,491 --> 01:02:42,801
And then, the Dalai
Lama reaffirmed

1249
01:02:42,836 --> 01:02:45,284
his personal commitment
to driving forward

1250
01:02:45,318 --> 01:02:47,836
the collaboration
between Buddhist science

1251
01:02:47,870 --> 01:02:49,353
and western science,

1252
01:02:49,387 --> 01:02:50,767
in the years ahead.

1253
01:02:58,318 --> 01:02:59,594
In 2003,

1254
01:02:59,629 --> 01:03:00,387
the Dalai Lama opened

1255
01:03:00,422 --> 01:03:01,870
up his conversations

1256
01:03:01,905 --> 01:03:03,560
with scientists to the public,

1257
01:03:03,594 --> 01:03:05,215
with a groundbreaking conference

1258
01:03:05,250 --> 01:03:06,870
at one of the most prestigious

1259
01:03:06,905 --> 01:03:09,560
scientific research
universities in the world --

1260
01:03:09,594 --> 01:03:11,422
MIT [Massachusetts
Institute of Technology].

1261
01:03:11,456 --> 01:03:12,974
In 1998,

1262
01:03:13,008 --> 01:03:15,284
we added collaborative research

1263
01:03:15,318 --> 01:03:16,250
to our mission.

1264
01:03:17,629 --> 01:03:19,629
And by that what we had in mind

1265
01:03:19,663 --> 01:03:21,318
was a true collaboration

1266
01:03:21,353 --> 01:03:22,836
between Buddhism and science,

1267
01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:24,870
where scientists and Buddhists

1268
01:03:24,905 --> 01:03:27,008
would stand shoulder to shoulder

1269
01:03:27,043 --> 01:03:29,560
and design the
scientific protocols,

1270
01:03:29,594 --> 01:03:31,870
recruit the subjects,

1271
01:03:31,905 --> 01:03:33,387
execute the research,

1272
01:03:33,422 --> 01:03:35,284
analyze the results together,

1273
01:03:35,318 --> 01:03:37,146
and publish together.

1274
01:03:39,077 --> 01:03:40,250
All of our public meetings

1275
01:03:40,284 --> 01:03:41,284
have been co-sponsored

1276
01:03:41,318 --> 01:03:44,008
by major research universities,

1277
01:03:44,043 --> 01:03:45,456
starting with MIT

1278
01:03:45,491 --> 01:03:47,215
and then with Georgetown

1279
01:03:47,250 --> 01:03:48,870
and Johns Hopkins
Medical Institute,

1280
01:03:48,905 --> 01:03:50,767
Emory, the Mayo Clinic,

1281
01:03:50,801 --> 01:03:52,008
the University of Zurich,

1282
01:03:52,043 --> 01:03:54,318
that really has
gotten credibility

1283
01:03:54,353 --> 01:03:56,318
and acceptance.

1284
01:03:56,353 --> 01:03:58,456
I'm going to explain

1285
01:03:58,491 --> 01:04:01,284
a few things

1286
01:04:01,318 --> 01:04:05,043
about how mental
imagery is being used

1287
01:04:05,077 --> 01:04:06,905
as part of a,

1288
01:04:06,939 --> 01:04:09,250
an effort of personal
transformation.

1289
01:04:10,974 --> 01:04:13,353
I'll be talking
about introspection

1290
01:04:13,387 --> 01:04:15,767
and mechanism in mental imagery,

1291
01:04:15,801 --> 01:04:18,008
but let me start off
by pointing out that

1292
01:04:18,043 --> 01:04:20,698
I have to be extremely humble.

1293
01:04:20,732 --> 01:04:22,112
Um, that was

1294
01:04:22,146 --> 01:04:23,215
a fantastic talk we just heard,

1295
01:04:23,250 --> 01:04:24,284
and it reminded me of

1296
01:04:24,318 --> 01:04:25,629
how little we know

1297
01:04:25,663 --> 01:04:27,284
in the scientific community,

1298
01:04:27,318 --> 01:04:28,422
just how narrow

1299
01:04:28,456 --> 01:04:29,767
and focused we've been.

1300
01:04:29,801 --> 01:04:32,146
Hopefully we're starting
to build a brick

1301
01:04:32,181 --> 01:04:34,043
that can contribute to the wall

1302
01:04:34,077 --> 01:04:36,181
but we really must be modest.

1303
01:04:36,215 --> 01:04:37,905
So with that preface.

1304
01:04:38,905 --> 01:04:39,525
Let me talk about

1305
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:40,525
what we've discovered --

1306
01:04:52,181 --> 01:04:53,491
The Dalai Lama spoke

1307
01:04:53,525 --> 01:04:56,456
before an overflow
crowd of 14,000

1308
01:04:56,491 --> 01:04:57,801
at the annual meeting

1309
01:04:57,836 --> 01:05:00,043
of the Society for Neuroscience,

1310
01:05:00,077 --> 01:05:01,594
despite a petition started by

1311
01:05:01,629 --> 01:05:03,215
some Chinese neuroscientists

1312
01:05:03,250 --> 01:05:05,146
to ban him from speaking.

1313
01:05:05,181 --> 01:05:08,974
And in 2014, the Dalai
Lama was invited to speak

1314
01:05:09,008 --> 01:05:12,456
at one of the world's foremost
medical research centers,

1315
01:05:12,491 --> 01:05:14,663
the National
Institute of Health,

1316
01:05:14,698 --> 01:05:16,939
where he was greeted
with a standing ovation.

1317
01:05:16,974 --> 01:05:19,422
I don't think I can recall

1318
01:05:19,456 --> 01:05:22,629
ever seeing this
auditorium this full,

1319
01:05:22,663 --> 01:05:25,491
and I've been at NIH
for twenty years.

1320
01:05:25,525 --> 01:05:29,284
So that says something
about the person

1321
01:05:29,318 --> 01:05:31,146
who is sitting to my left,

1322
01:05:31,181 --> 01:05:34,456
who I think all of
you want to hear from,

1323
01:05:34,491 --> 01:05:37,284
His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

1324
01:05:37,318 --> 01:05:40,870
His Holiness saw a demonstration
just a few minutes ago,

1325
01:05:40,905 --> 01:05:43,422
of a thirteen year old
girl with cerebral palsy

1326
01:05:43,456 --> 01:05:45,870
who is in our
rehabilitation lab,

1327
01:05:45,905 --> 01:05:47,698
with some very high tech

1328
01:05:47,732 --> 01:05:50,525
analyses of how
her motor problems

1329
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,629
connect with what's
going on in the brain,

1330
01:05:52,663 --> 01:05:55,353
and how training
on the elliptical

1331
01:05:55,387 --> 01:05:56,870
and some other
things they're doing

1332
01:05:56,905 --> 01:06:00,008
is improving her
leg's functioning,

1333
01:06:00,043 --> 01:06:02,043
and maybe reprogramming

1334
01:06:02,077 --> 01:06:04,008
the motor part of her brain.

1335
01:06:04,043 --> 01:06:06,525
The controller is here,

1336
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:09,422
so controller damaged,

1337
01:06:09,456 --> 01:06:12,284
and then this
movement difficult.

1338
01:06:12,318 --> 01:06:14,422
So now I learned,

1339
01:06:14,456 --> 01:06:18,663
training here, can
change the controller.

1340
01:06:18,698 --> 01:06:22,146
Ultimately, scientific
research should

1341
01:06:22,181 --> 01:06:26,353
bring some benefit to humanity.

1342
01:06:30,181 --> 01:06:33,801
The company or concerned people

1343
01:06:33,836 --> 01:06:35,767
who made this,

1344
01:06:35,801 --> 01:06:38,353
I really very much appreciate.

1345
01:06:38,387 --> 01:06:41,008
And you, now you see,

1346
01:06:41,043 --> 01:06:45,353
can tell them how
useful this is.

1347
01:06:45,387 --> 01:06:48,077
And then,

1348
01:06:48,112 --> 01:06:50,732
I think in Europe,

1349
01:06:50,767 --> 01:06:54,043
I think comparatively
better, better facilities.

1350
01:06:54,077 --> 01:06:56,594
But look at Africa.

1351
01:06:56,629 --> 01:06:57,560
Yeah.

1352
01:06:57,594 --> 01:06:59,112
Many poor people.

1353
01:07:01,629 --> 01:07:05,525
And then less
developed countries,

1354
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:10,525
the suffering is immense.

1355
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:14,525
During the 21st
century scientists,

1356
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:16,112
technologists really

1357
01:07:16,146 --> 01:07:20,594
develop wonderful
sorts of inventions.

1358
01:07:20,629 --> 01:07:21,698
So you can see, you can touch.

1359
01:07:23,491 --> 01:07:24,387
Cold hand.

1360
01:07:27,077 --> 01:07:28,422
That's this device here.

1361
01:07:30,043 --> 01:07:31,732
You see how the
Vagus nerve here.

1362
01:07:31,767 --> 01:07:34,387
Yes. And it works?

1363
01:07:34,422 --> 01:07:38,422
Great sort of result, out
of scientific research,

1364
01:07:38,456 --> 01:07:39,422
and technology also.

1365
01:07:39,456 --> 01:07:40,422
Wonderful.

1366
01:07:43,250 --> 01:07:44,250
Wonderful.

1367
01:07:48,284 --> 01:07:50,663
[narrator] The Dalai Lama
collected a prestigious
award today

1368
01:07:50,698 --> 01:07:53,181
for his unique
contribution in engaging

1369
01:07:53,215 --> 01:07:55,318
with multiple
dimensions of science.

1370
01:07:55,353 --> 01:07:57,250
The John Templeton Foundation

1371
01:07:57,284 --> 01:07:59,008
stated that for decades

1372
01:07:59,043 --> 01:08:00,112
the Dalai Lama has focused

1373
01:08:00,146 --> 01:08:01,353
on the connections

1374
01:08:01,387 --> 01:08:03,181
between the investigative
traditions of science

1375
01:08:03,215 --> 01:08:04,767
and Buddhism, specifically

1376
01:08:04,801 --> 01:08:06,456
by encouraging
scientific reviews

1377
01:08:06,491 --> 01:08:07,905
of the power of compassion

1378
01:08:07,939 --> 01:08:09,663
and its potential to address the

1379
01:08:09,698 --> 01:08:11,112
world's fundamental problems.

1380
01:08:11,146 --> 01:08:12,456
The Templeton award,

1381
01:08:12,491 --> 01:08:13,560
which was established

1382
01:08:13,594 --> 01:08:14,767
over forty years ago,

1383
01:08:14,801 --> 01:08:16,456
claims to be the world's largest

1384
01:08:16,491 --> 01:08:18,353
yearly monetary award.

1385
01:08:18,387 --> 01:08:19,698
The Dalai Lama

1386
01:08:19,732 --> 01:08:21,146
says that he
intends to donate it

1387
01:08:21,181 --> 01:08:23,146
to help impoverished
children in India,

1388
01:08:23,181 --> 01:08:24,698
and also to fund further

1389
01:08:24,732 --> 01:08:27,525
scientific research
and investigation.

1390
01:08:29,939 --> 01:08:33,008
The Dalai Lama continued
to collaborate with

1391
01:08:33,043 --> 01:08:35,008
including Richard Davidson.

1392
01:08:35,043 --> 01:08:36,456
If it weren't for
these dialogues,

1393
01:08:36,491 --> 01:08:39,077
I think I wouldn't have
found some key insights.

1394
01:08:39,112 --> 01:08:42,008
It's been deeply
important and meaningful.

1395
01:08:42,043 --> 01:08:45,801
And I think that it
will transform science.

1396
01:08:45,836 --> 01:08:48,905
Neuroplasticity simply
means that the brain changes

1397
01:08:48,939 --> 01:08:53,077
in response to experience
and in response to training.

1398
01:08:53,112 --> 01:08:55,663
Most of the time the brain
is changing unwittingly.

1399
01:08:55,698 --> 01:08:57,284
Recent evidence suggests that

1400
01:08:57,318 --> 01:08:59,043
the average American
adult spends

1401
01:08:59,077 --> 01:09:00,767
forty-seven percent of her

1402
01:09:00,801 --> 01:09:02,456
or his waking life,

1403
01:09:02,491 --> 01:09:04,870
not paying attention
to what they're doing.

1404
01:09:04,905 --> 01:09:05,801
Now what you see,

1405
01:09:05,836 --> 01:09:06,905
here, is the expression

1406
01:09:06,939 --> 01:09:09,284
of high amplitude
gamma oscillations.

1407
01:09:09,318 --> 01:09:10,974
These gamma oscillations

1408
01:09:11,008 --> 01:09:12,801
when they are seen
in normal human

1409
01:09:12,836 --> 01:09:15,250
beings are typically very brief,

1410
01:09:15,284 --> 01:09:17,353
less than one
second in duration.

1411
01:09:17,387 --> 01:09:21,181
But we observe them
continuously at high amplitude

1412
01:09:21,215 --> 01:09:24,318
in these long term
meditation practitioners.

1413
01:09:24,353 --> 01:09:26,698
These are oscillations
which are associated

1414
01:09:26,732 --> 01:09:28,560
with states of
focused attention,

1415
01:09:28,594 --> 01:09:30,870
as well as periods of insight
when different elements

1416
01:09:30,905 --> 01:09:32,698
of a percept

1417
01:09:32,732 --> 01:09:34,284
or an idea come together

1418
01:09:34,318 --> 01:09:36,801
in a kind of momentary insight.

1419
01:09:36,836 --> 01:09:39,008
Then you see a burst of gamma.

1420
01:09:39,043 --> 01:09:40,732
Now, this is very interesting --

1421
01:09:40,767 --> 01:09:43,387
we have for the very
first time a technology

1422
01:09:43,422 --> 01:09:46,491
which allows us to actually
look at epigenetic changes

1423
01:09:46,525 --> 01:09:48,732
in human brain tissue.

1424
01:09:48,767 --> 01:09:50,318
We can take a blood cell,

1425
01:09:50,353 --> 01:09:52,043
and we can convert that cell

1426
01:09:52,077 --> 01:09:54,284
into a pluripotent stem cell.

1427
01:09:54,318 --> 01:09:55,801
We can then turn it into

1428
01:09:55,836 --> 01:09:57,594
any other kind of
cell in the body.

1429
01:09:57,629 --> 01:09:59,870
And one of the things
that we can do, in a dish,

1430
01:09:59,905 --> 01:10:02,250
is that we can turn
it into any kind

1431
01:10:02,284 --> 01:10:05,905
of neuron that we find
in the human brain,

1432
01:10:05,939 --> 01:10:08,422
and then we can look
at the gene expression

1433
01:10:08,456 --> 01:10:10,250
in that neuronal stage.

1434
01:10:10,284 --> 01:10:14,767
And so this is going to usher in
a whole new era of investigation

1435
01:10:14,801 --> 01:10:17,594
that enables us to look with
much greater specificity,

1436
01:10:17,629 --> 01:10:20,146
at the brain, than ever before.

1437
01:10:20,181 --> 01:10:23,353
It is also important to know
that there are three major

1438
01:10:23,387 --> 01:10:26,698
periods of increased
plasticity in the brain --

1439
01:10:26,732 --> 01:10:28,801
one is right around birth;

1440
01:10:28,836 --> 01:10:30,456
the second is around
the onset of schooling

1441
01:10:30,491 --> 01:10:33,353
between the ages of
five and seven years;

1442
01:10:33,387 --> 01:10:36,250
and the third is
around adolescence.

1443
01:10:36,284 --> 01:10:39,663
These are periods where the
brain is radically reorganized,

1444
01:10:39,698 --> 01:10:43,250
and these are all
opportunities for intervention.

1445
01:11:06,491 --> 01:11:08,560
The Dalai Lama
also worked closely

1446
01:11:08,594 --> 01:11:12,043
for many years with other
scientists, like Paul Ekman.

1447
01:11:12,077 --> 01:11:13,422
In 2016,

1448
01:11:13,456 --> 01:11:15,112
they launched
their comprehensive

1449
01:11:15,146 --> 01:11:17,008
map of human emotions.

1450
01:11:17,043 --> 01:11:20,146
If I heard you
correctly, Your Holiness,

1451
01:11:20,181 --> 01:11:21,939
you are talking about
a map of emotions.

1452
01:11:21,974 --> 01:11:22,836
Yes.

1453
01:11:22,870 --> 01:11:23,836
We human beings,

1454
01:11:23,870 --> 01:11:26,594
this marvelous intelligence,

1455
01:11:26,629 --> 01:11:30,698
either you see becomes
a source of happiness,

1456
01:11:30,732 --> 01:11:32,663
or a source of worry.

1457
01:11:33,456 --> 01:11:37,836
You have all the facilities,
but at the same time

1458
01:11:37,870 --> 01:11:41,698
can be very, very
unhappy person.

1459
01:11:41,732 --> 01:11:44,491
We met every week
for almost two years,

1460
01:11:44,525 --> 01:11:46,112
trying to figure out

1461
01:11:46,146 --> 01:11:48,491
how can we use graphics

1462
01:11:48,525 --> 01:11:51,594
to give us insight
into our emotions?

1463
01:11:51,629 --> 01:11:53,422
How can we map them?

1464
01:11:53,456 --> 01:11:56,698
The process of creating the map,

1465
01:11:56,732 --> 01:11:58,801
of answering the questions
that he kept raising

1466
01:11:58,836 --> 01:12:01,698
about how to do it,
how it should be shown,

1467
01:12:01,732 --> 01:12:04,767
made me think about
emotions in a way I hadn't

1468
01:12:04,801 --> 01:12:06,215
thought of up until then,

1469
01:12:06,250 --> 01:12:08,525
after fifty years
of studying emotion.

1470
01:12:09,318 --> 01:12:12,629
Because of emotions we may
starve ourself to death,

1471
01:12:12,663 --> 01:12:16,318
because of emotions we
may take our own life,

1472
01:12:16,353 --> 01:12:18,905
but the fundamental
drives are puny compared

1473
01:12:18,939 --> 01:12:22,974
to the power of emotions
which override them --

1474
01:12:23,008 --> 01:12:26,284
they are what drives life.

1475
01:12:26,318 --> 01:12:28,318
We must, sort of, utilize

1476
01:12:28,353 --> 01:12:32,112
a deeper level of our ability

1477
01:12:32,146 --> 01:12:33,767
to think,

1478
01:12:33,801 --> 01:12:37,456
to tackle our emotions.

1479
01:12:43,250 --> 01:12:46,215
The scientific dialogues
continued, and they covered

1480
01:12:46,250 --> 01:12:49,663
molecular biology and genetics.

1481
01:12:49,698 --> 01:12:52,043
What I'm going to
talk about essentially

1482
01:12:52,077 --> 01:12:54,043
is how parents

1483
01:12:54,077 --> 01:12:56,284
alter the activity of genes

1484
01:12:56,318 --> 01:12:58,939
in the brain and how
that influences the way

1485
01:12:58,974 --> 01:13:01,077
their children
respond to stress,

1486
01:13:01,112 --> 01:13:03,594
and in particular what
I'd like to talk about,

1487
01:13:03,629 --> 01:13:05,560
and that component that
may be somewhat new,

1488
01:13:05,594 --> 01:13:10,250
is how it is that the influence
of parents can persist

1489
01:13:10,284 --> 01:13:13,008
potentially over
the entire lifespan.

1490
01:13:13,043 --> 01:13:14,525
The idea is,

1491
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:16,043
that as I mentioned,
parental care alters

1492
01:13:16,077 --> 01:13:18,560
the activity of
genes in the brain,

1493
01:13:18,594 --> 01:13:20,353
and that these effects
are very specific.

1494
01:13:20,387 --> 01:13:22,594
Then the second
component of this --

1495
01:13:22,629 --> 01:13:27,250
these parental effects actually
involve a form of plasticity.

1496
01:13:28,112 --> 01:13:30,629
But this plasticity
is different.

1497
01:13:30,663 --> 01:13:34,043
It doesn't involve
connections between neurons.

1498
01:13:34,077 --> 01:13:36,284
The modifications actually occur

1499
01:13:36,318 --> 01:13:38,698
at the level of the gene itself.

1500
01:13:38,732 --> 01:13:42,043
And that there is an
organization of the chemical

1501
01:13:42,077 --> 01:13:44,974
environment in which
the gene operates,

1502
01:13:45,008 --> 01:13:46,836
and that is the effect

1503
01:13:46,870 --> 01:13:49,284
that then sustains
itself over the lifespan.

1504
01:13:49,318 --> 01:13:51,663
They began to collaborate.

1505
01:13:51,698 --> 01:13:53,077
And what was so

1506
01:13:53,112 --> 01:13:55,318
impressive I think was
the overlay between

1507
01:13:55,353 --> 01:13:56,663
Buddhist philosophy

1508
01:13:56,698 --> 01:13:59,284
and cognitive
behavioral therapy,

1509
01:13:59,318 --> 01:14:00,974
and what I wanted to
do was to try to bring

1510
01:14:01,008 --> 01:14:02,732
that into a particular context.

1511
01:14:02,767 --> 01:14:05,284
What we're understanding is
that many forms of illness

1512
01:14:05,318 --> 01:14:09,284
and disease is shaped
first by events that occur

1513
01:14:09,318 --> 01:14:10,318
early in life.

1514
01:14:11,353 --> 01:14:13,491
And second, it is shaped by

1515
01:14:13,525 --> 01:14:15,594
various forms of
family experience.

1516
01:14:15,629 --> 01:14:19,629
And I'd like yourself and
members of the audience

1517
01:14:19,663 --> 01:14:22,663
to simply imagine
life as a child,

1518
01:14:22,698 --> 01:14:25,801
growing up in a family with

1519
01:14:25,836 --> 01:14:27,905
drug abuse, unemployment,

1520
01:14:27,939 --> 01:14:30,767
financial stress,

1521
01:14:30,801 --> 01:14:33,456
and physical and sexual abuse.

1522
01:14:33,491 --> 01:14:36,146
And emotionally they
then become people

1523
01:14:36,181 --> 01:14:39,560
who are very
sensitive to threat.

1524
01:14:39,594 --> 01:14:42,525
For these children their
anger is not wrong.

1525
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:45,008
It is very adaptive.

1526
01:14:45,043 --> 01:14:46,077
We've created an environment

1527
01:14:46,112 --> 01:14:48,801
in which the child
must normally be angry.

1528
01:14:48,836 --> 01:14:51,112
And one of the problems
that we face in medicine,

1529
01:14:51,146 --> 01:14:53,215
in particular in psychiatry,

1530
01:14:53,250 --> 01:14:55,939
is how do we reach
out to those children.

1531
01:14:55,974 --> 01:14:59,077
How do we deal with
that form of anger?

1532
01:15:04,870 --> 01:15:07,663
Of course, you know, related
to this is the question

1533
01:15:07,698 --> 01:15:10,767
which His Holiness
was saying that he has

1534
01:15:10,801 --> 01:15:12,870
been often asking
and interested,

1535
01:15:12,905 --> 01:15:16,663
that as a result of
changes at the brain level,

1536
01:15:16,698 --> 01:15:18,491
there is a
manifestation of changes

1537
01:15:18,525 --> 01:15:20,215
at the psychological
and emotional level.

1538
01:15:20,250 --> 01:15:22,387
Yes, that's uncontentious.

1539
01:15:22,422 --> 01:15:24,870
But can one also imagine

1540
01:15:24,905 --> 01:15:26,112
the reversal process,

1541
01:15:26,146 --> 01:15:28,215
where as a result of
a thought process,

1542
01:15:28,250 --> 01:15:30,181
change in the thought process,

1543
01:15:30,215 --> 01:15:34,836
one could see a change on
the brain level, as well.

1544
01:15:34,870 --> 01:15:38,456
The optimism here is
that these can occur,

1545
01:15:38,491 --> 01:15:41,974
and that the
dialogue involved in

1546
01:15:42,008 --> 01:15:42,974
cognitive behavioural therapy

1547
01:15:43,008 --> 01:15:45,077
or in Buddhist philosophy

1548
01:15:45,112 --> 01:15:47,732
can, there is the prospect,

1549
01:15:47,767 --> 01:15:50,181
of changing at the level
of the gene itself.

1550
01:15:50,215 --> 01:15:52,318
There is the prospect.

1551
01:15:55,491 --> 01:15:57,525
I think a lot of our problems,

1552
01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:02,215
not necessarily created
by technology itself,

1553
01:16:02,250 --> 01:16:05,146
but by anger, hatred, fear.

1554
01:16:05,181 --> 01:16:07,974
I had the honor to spend
a week in Dharamsala

1555
01:16:08,008 --> 01:16:09,801
at the invitation
of His Holiness

1556
01:16:09,836 --> 01:16:11,318
for a remarkable meeting,

1557
01:16:11,353 --> 01:16:12,594
"The Nature of Life",

1558
01:16:12,629 --> 01:16:15,629
and it was a truly
remarkable experience.

1559
01:16:15,663 --> 01:16:17,284
It was a discussion
we were having to do

1560
01:16:17,318 --> 01:16:20,456
about embryonic stem cells.

1561
01:16:20,491 --> 01:16:22,663
And it was offered

1562
01:16:22,698 --> 01:16:23,801
from the Buddhist perspective

1563
01:16:23,836 --> 01:16:25,836
that the Abhidharma
mentions that

1564
01:16:25,870 --> 01:16:29,456
through the meeting of two
regenerative substances

1565
01:16:29,491 --> 01:16:30,974
of the mother and the father,

1566
01:16:31,008 --> 01:16:34,181
consciousness enters and the
being then becomes sentient.

1567
01:16:34,215 --> 01:16:37,767
From which you might
reason that the being

1568
01:16:37,801 --> 01:16:40,318
becomes a sentient
immediately at fertilization,

1569
01:16:40,353 --> 01:16:43,974
and that there would therefore
be very serious problems

1570
01:16:44,008 --> 01:16:46,043
with working with such a cell.

1571
01:16:46,077 --> 01:16:48,250
And that was the opening
position, the opening thought.

1572
01:16:48,284 --> 01:16:51,594
And as more scientific
discussion went back and forth

1573
01:16:51,629 --> 01:16:54,215
about this point,
it emerged that yes,

1574
01:16:54,250 --> 01:16:57,491
but if you took embryos
and separated the cells

1575
01:16:57,525 --> 01:17:00,284
you got two people, not one.

1576
01:17:00,318 --> 01:17:04,525
And if you implanted an
embryo it was no guarantee

1577
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:05,974
that you would even
get a single person,

1578
01:17:06,008 --> 01:17:06,939
you might get none,

1579
01:17:06,974 --> 01:17:11,077
because most embryos
spontaneously abort.

1580
01:17:11,112 --> 01:17:13,663
And so maybe it wasn't so
simple. And maybe in fact --

1581
01:17:13,698 --> 01:17:16,181
and it was just a remarkable

1582
01:17:16,215 --> 01:17:17,422
moment for me as a scientist

1583
01:17:17,456 --> 01:17:20,318
hearing the Buddhists and
His Holiness discussing this.

1584
01:17:20,353 --> 01:17:21,870
Maybe, in fact,

1585
01:17:21,905 --> 01:17:24,043
there was a different
interpretation there,

1586
01:17:24,077 --> 01:17:26,318
and maybe there was no
negative karma associated

1587
01:17:26,353 --> 01:17:28,422
with experimentation
at that point.

1588
01:17:28,456 --> 01:17:30,284
I think our

1589
01:17:30,318 --> 01:17:31,836
knowledge about consciousness,

1590
01:17:31,870 --> 01:17:34,181
as time goes, time passes,

1591
01:17:34,215 --> 01:17:35,525
I think will increase,

1592
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:36,491
this is my feeling.

1593
01:17:36,525 --> 01:17:39,008
Right now in the west, people

1594
01:17:39,043 --> 01:17:41,181
are trying to write about

1595
01:17:41,215 --> 01:17:43,456
the ethical questions
in genetics.

1596
01:17:43,491 --> 01:17:48,491
And I hope that the
monks here and yourself

1597
01:17:50,008 --> 01:17:52,732
don't feel like
you have to wait.

1598
01:17:52,767 --> 01:17:54,594
I know several of
the monks have said,

1599
01:17:54,629 --> 01:17:56,560
"Well, I have so much to
learn and so much to learn."

1600
01:17:56,594 --> 01:17:59,215
You also have so much to teach.

1601
01:18:20,663 --> 01:18:24,767
Still a lot of things
to further develop.

1602
01:18:24,801 --> 01:18:29,353
So combination of
discussion, you see,

1603
01:18:29,387 --> 01:18:33,215
helps to extend knowledge,

1604
01:18:33,250 --> 01:18:35,077
and the field of
scientific research

1605
01:18:35,112 --> 01:18:37,318
also now can expand.

1606
01:18:39,112 --> 01:18:41,008
The Dalai Lama supported
opening the field

1607
01:18:41,043 --> 01:18:42,525
of contemplative neuroscience

1608
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:45,491
to a new generation.

1609
01:18:46,422 --> 01:18:48,456
I'm a neuroscientist,
and I did my PhD

1610
01:18:48,491 --> 01:18:51,836
and postdoctoral work
at Emory University.

1611
01:18:51,870 --> 01:18:54,732
And they suggested that I go to
the Summer Research Institute.

1612
01:18:54,767 --> 01:18:57,112
And then following
on that I was able

1613
01:18:57,146 --> 01:18:58,594
to get a grant to
do a research study,

1614
01:18:58,629 --> 01:19:00,387
a neuroimaging
study on meditation,

1615
01:19:00,422 --> 01:19:02,387
and so that really
launched my career

1616
01:19:02,422 --> 01:19:04,181
into a different direction.

1617
01:19:06,250 --> 01:19:07,663
The Summer Research Institute is

1618
01:19:07,698 --> 01:19:09,905
really instrumental
in this whole field.

1619
01:19:09,939 --> 01:19:12,456
They bring in a lot of the
senior researchers and scholars,

1620
01:19:12,491 --> 01:19:14,491
and a lot of the younger
graduate students and postdocs

1621
01:19:14,525 --> 01:19:15,594
that are coming up,

1622
01:19:15,629 --> 01:19:17,870
and the idea is to really
foster our development.

1623
01:19:20,043 --> 01:19:21,491
Young scientists who attend

1624
01:19:21,525 --> 01:19:23,491
the Summer Research
Institute are eligible

1625
01:19:23,525 --> 01:19:27,456
to apply for a
$20,000 Varela grant.

1626
01:19:27,491 --> 01:19:30,905
More than sixty-three million in
follow on grant research funding

1627
01:19:30,939 --> 01:19:33,043
in the field of
contemplative neuroscience

1628
01:19:33,077 --> 01:19:35,491
has been raised as a result.

1629
01:19:35,525 --> 01:19:39,456
If you put out a request
for papers to a conference,

1630
01:19:39,491 --> 01:19:41,077
who should be allowed to speak?

1631
01:19:41,112 --> 01:19:44,077
You know, if you're
a young person

1632
01:19:44,112 --> 01:19:46,732
and you're just getting
your feet wet you may

1633
01:19:46,767 --> 01:19:50,422
actually be making a fool
of yourself when you get up

1634
01:19:50,456 --> 01:19:54,250
and give your poster paper
or your presentation,

1635
01:19:54,284 --> 01:19:56,974
but actually that's part
of growing into the field.

1636
01:19:57,008 --> 01:20:00,905
There's a nurturing that
you can do of a community

1637
01:20:00,939 --> 01:20:03,663
through inclusion
in a conference.

1638
01:20:05,112 --> 01:20:07,112
Amishi's lab was awarded

1639
01:20:07,146 --> 01:20:09,905
a Varela Grant in 2006.

1640
01:20:11,008 --> 01:20:15,974
Hello, everyone. Can
you hear me? All right.

1641
01:20:18,456 --> 01:20:21,767
Can you see my face? OK.

1642
01:20:21,801 --> 01:20:26,284
The Dalai Lama's intervention
allows me to take very seriously

1643
01:20:26,318 --> 01:20:29,491
the wisdom that comes
from the Buddhist texts.

1644
01:20:29,525 --> 01:20:31,767
Even in the conversation
I had with him directly

1645
01:20:31,801 --> 01:20:33,318
during this meeting,

1646
01:20:33,353 --> 01:20:34,560
it was clear that

1647
01:20:34,594 --> 01:20:36,284
this terrain he knows well.

1648
01:20:36,318 --> 01:20:39,387
And in some sense my
results were so familiar

1649
01:20:39,422 --> 01:20:41,629
to him that he almost
thought there were obvious.

1650
01:20:41,663 --> 01:20:43,525
That's sort of shocking
because it's taken us

1651
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:46,318
about seventy years of
attention research in

1652
01:20:46,353 --> 01:20:48,422
the field of cognitive
neuroscience to really

1653
01:20:48,456 --> 01:20:51,181
come to a clear answer to
some of these questions.

1654
01:20:51,215 --> 01:20:53,870
And to him it was what he
predicted and it's what

1655
01:20:53,905 --> 01:20:55,974
he was happy to see, but
he wasn't surprised by it.

1656
01:20:56,008 --> 01:21:00,353
It's definitely helped me
feel like I have a whole

1657
01:21:00,387 --> 01:21:03,629
other goldmine of
thought to lean on

1658
01:21:03,663 --> 01:21:05,801
for motivating hypotheses
in our studies.

1659
01:21:05,836 --> 01:21:08,284
So Buddha himself,
you see, made clear --

1660
01:21:08,318 --> 01:21:12,284
all my followers,
monks, scholars,

1661
01:21:12,318 --> 01:21:14,905
should not accept my
teaching out of faith,

1662
01:21:14,939 --> 01:21:19,284
but rather a thorough
investigation and experiment.

1663
01:21:20,905 --> 01:21:24,318
Today we have the great
privilege of exploring

1664
01:21:24,353 --> 01:21:27,043
what is one of the
greatest mysteries of all,

1665
01:21:27,077 --> 01:21:30,801
the nature of consciousness,
the nature of the mind.

1666
01:21:30,836 --> 01:21:34,422
Professor Christof Koch,
who's a professor of biology

1667
01:21:34,456 --> 01:21:36,284
and engineering at Caltech.

1668
01:21:36,318 --> 01:21:39,767
He is also the chief scientist

1669
01:21:39,801 --> 01:21:42,077
at the Paul Allen Institute

1670
01:21:42,112 --> 01:21:44,905
for Brain Science, a
remarkable new initiative.

1671
01:21:44,939 --> 01:21:46,974
Your Holiness, I have
the great responsibility

1672
01:21:47,008 --> 01:21:50,801
of representing 2,300
years of Western thought

1673
01:21:50,836 --> 01:21:51,836
on this in one hour.

1674
01:21:51,870 --> 01:21:53,974
This tradition reaches
back all the way

1675
01:21:54,008 --> 01:21:56,250
to the Greeks in
Western thought.

1676
01:21:56,284 --> 01:22:00,870
It's this tradition that
stresses the empirical

1677
01:22:00,905 --> 01:22:03,008
You can think about
things but ultimately

1678
01:22:03,043 --> 01:22:04,767
you have to test
them against reality,

1679
01:22:04,801 --> 01:22:06,560
and your theories
including theories of

1680
01:22:06,594 --> 01:22:08,250
consciousness have
to be testable,

1681
01:22:08,284 --> 01:22:11,284
otherwise they are not
scientific theories.

1682
01:22:11,318 --> 01:22:14,387
When I spent a week with
His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

1683
01:22:14,422 --> 01:22:15,767
I was struck by how
often he talked about

1684
01:22:15,801 --> 01:22:20,215
the need to reduce the suffering
of all conscious creatures,

1685
01:22:20,250 --> 01:22:21,698
not just all people.

1686
01:22:22,491 --> 01:22:25,318
That highly organised
matter such as my brain,

1687
01:22:25,353 --> 01:22:27,525
such as your brain, such as
the brains of other creatures,

1688
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:29,629
comes with conscious experience.

1689
01:22:29,663 --> 01:22:32,422
I was struck by particular
types of meditation.

1690
01:22:32,456 --> 01:22:36,525
You can have what Buddhists
call a naked awareness,

1691
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:38,422
pure experience,
sheer experience,

1692
01:22:38,456 --> 01:22:41,525
when you're conscious,
so you're not asleep,

1693
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:42,870
you're conscious, but
there's no content,

1694
01:22:42,905 --> 01:22:44,870
there's no desire, no dream,

1695
01:22:44,905 --> 01:22:46,767
no fear, no ego,

1696
01:22:46,801 --> 01:22:48,353
no sensory messages,

1697
01:22:48,387 --> 01:22:49,939
but you're still conscious.

1698
01:22:49,974 --> 01:22:52,422
Pure consciousness,
very interesting.

1699
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:57,594
[narrator] More and more there
was strong and

1700
01:22:57,629 --> 01:22:59,698
growing support for the concept

1701
01:22:59,732 --> 01:23:01,836
of allowing young
Buddhist scholars

1702
01:23:01,870 --> 01:23:03,422
who had mastered these
techniques of controlling

1703
01:23:03,456 --> 01:23:06,043
their own minds to also

1704
01:23:06,077 --> 01:23:09,284
be trained as
scientists themselves.

1705
01:23:09,318 --> 01:23:12,456
I think now more
than ten years we

1706
01:23:12,491 --> 01:23:16,353
start selected monk students

1707
01:23:16,387 --> 01:23:19,594
and in a special sort
of class for science.

1708
01:23:19,629 --> 01:23:22,284
I will just make a brief outline

1709
01:23:22,318 --> 01:23:24,112
how we are overseeing

1710
01:23:24,146 --> 01:23:25,629
many of the science initiatives

1711
01:23:25,663 --> 01:23:26,698
that are taking place

1712
01:23:26,732 --> 01:23:28,870
due to the guidance
of His Holiness.

1713
01:23:28,905 --> 01:23:30,732
The science for the monks

1714
01:23:30,767 --> 01:23:34,525
is an initiative
since the year 2001.

1715
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:36,215
That was followed by the

1716
01:23:36,250 --> 01:23:38,525
secular science leadership.

1717
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:40,939
The leadership program
came into being because

1718
01:23:40,974 --> 01:23:42,663
we felt that was important
not only to give the basic

1719
01:23:42,698 --> 01:23:46,043
science education but
also to create a network

1720
01:23:46,077 --> 01:23:49,181
of science teachers or
others who do the fieldwork

1721
01:23:49,215 --> 01:23:51,215
in different monasteries.

1722
01:23:52,215 --> 01:23:54,491
Many science teachers,

1723
01:23:54,525 --> 01:23:56,008
they very much impressed.

1724
01:23:56,043 --> 01:23:58,215
These monk students

1725
01:23:58,250 --> 01:24:00,077
do not know English,

1726
01:24:00,112 --> 01:24:02,387
do not know math, mathematic.

1727
01:24:02,422 --> 01:24:06,043
But their way to
thinking, to analyze,

1728
01:24:06,077 --> 01:24:07,732
you see, very sharp.

1729
01:24:08,698 --> 01:24:12,250
In 2006,

1730
01:24:12,284 --> 01:24:13,525
when Your Holiness invited us

1731
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:15,146
to collaborate with the library,

1732
01:24:15,181 --> 01:24:16,905
of Tibetan works and archives,

1733
01:24:16,939 --> 01:24:19,284
to develop this program,

1734
01:24:19,318 --> 01:24:21,318
it was a great honor
for Emory University .

1735
01:24:21,353 --> 01:24:24,698
Certainly a program like this is

1736
01:24:24,732 --> 01:24:28,594
its aim is not only

1737
01:24:28,629 --> 01:24:31,491
to impart modern
science education

1738
01:24:31,525 --> 01:24:34,215
for the Tibetan monks and nuns,

1739
01:24:34,250 --> 01:24:35,905
but His Holiness' vision

1740
01:24:35,939 --> 01:24:38,525
here is to prepare

1741
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:41,767
the future contemplative
collaborators with

1742
01:24:41,801 --> 01:24:43,422
the science so that

1743
01:24:43,456 --> 01:24:45,146
new knowledge can be formed

1744
01:24:45,181 --> 01:24:47,077
which can have a

1745
01:24:47,112 --> 01:24:50,525
tremendous benefit for
the humanity at large.

1746
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:53,215
And then monk students

1747
01:24:53,250 --> 01:24:55,146
themselves also gradually,

1748
01:24:55,181 --> 01:24:57,112
they really found

1749
01:24:57,146 --> 01:24:58,250
not only just interest

1750
01:24:58,284 --> 01:25:00,663
but something very useful.

1751
01:25:00,698 --> 01:25:01,939
Extensive science curriculum

1752
01:25:01,974 --> 01:25:04,077
has been created and translated.

1753
01:25:04,112 --> 01:25:06,387
Many Tibetan monks
have been trained

1754
01:25:06,422 --> 01:25:07,939
over years at Emory University

1755
01:25:07,974 --> 01:25:09,353
to become science teachers

1756
01:25:09,387 --> 01:25:10,905
for the project,

1757
01:25:10,939 --> 01:25:13,456
and new science centers
have been created

1758
01:25:13,491 --> 01:25:16,146
at all of the leading
Tibetan monasteries in India.

1759
01:25:16,181 --> 01:25:17,387
For the first time

1760
01:25:17,422 --> 01:25:18,629
in two thousand years,

1761
01:25:18,663 --> 01:25:20,525
a dramatic change has been made

1762
01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:22,629
in Tibetan monastic education.

1763
01:25:22,663 --> 01:25:24,629
Science has officially become

1764
01:25:24,663 --> 01:25:26,732
a required course of study.

1765
01:25:28,767 --> 01:25:32,629
And if we can implement
knowledge from

1766
01:25:32,663 --> 01:25:35,698
Buddhist science and
Buddhist philosophy,

1767
01:25:35,732 --> 01:25:38,767
then we can create
a collaboration

1768
01:25:38,801 --> 01:25:41,043
of knowledge which can

1769
01:25:41,077 --> 01:25:42,939
have a very positive outcome.

1770
01:25:42,974 --> 01:25:44,836
Although the outcome

1771
01:25:44,870 --> 01:25:46,629
may not appear immediately,

1772
01:25:46,663 --> 01:25:48,594
in the long run

1773
01:25:48,629 --> 01:25:51,043
they will be great results and

1774
01:25:51,077 --> 01:25:52,663
great progress.

1775
01:25:52,698 --> 01:25:55,077
And I see it as a contribution

1776
01:25:55,112 --> 01:25:57,525
to the future generations,

1777
01:25:57,560 --> 01:26:01,250
and, ah, humanity as a whole.

1778
01:26:05,629 --> 01:26:07,698
The Dalai Lama also
encouraged the development

1779
01:26:07,732 --> 01:26:11,250
of new scientifically based
education curriculum for youth.

1780
01:26:11,284 --> 01:26:15,008
A conference was
held in 2018 for the

1781
01:26:15,043 --> 01:26:17,077
presentation of
some model programs.

1782
01:26:17,112 --> 01:26:21,353
And so your office extended
an invitation to individuals

1783
01:26:21,387 --> 01:26:25,077
around the world to think
about building curricula

1784
01:26:25,112 --> 01:26:26,560
that have an ethical
dimension to them.

1785
01:26:26,594 --> 01:26:30,181
And this is where Jennifer
Knox and her colleagues

1786
01:26:30,215 --> 01:26:33,560
in the group at Emory
have been doing some

1787
01:26:33,594 --> 01:26:34,491
really fundamental work.

1788
01:26:34,525 --> 01:26:38,801
Their program is
called, the SEE Program,

1789
01:26:38,836 --> 01:26:41,663
social, emotional,
and ethical learning.

1790
01:26:41,698 --> 01:26:45,870
Three focuses of inner focus
and emotional intelligence,

1791
01:26:45,905 --> 01:26:49,284
other focus, social
intelligence,

1792
01:26:49,318 --> 01:26:52,491
and outer focus,
systems intelligence.

1793
01:26:52,525 --> 01:26:55,939
Many individuals who
are in our culture

1794
01:26:55,974 --> 01:26:58,043
have experienced trauma

1795
01:26:58,077 --> 01:27:00,422
and so without developing

1796
01:27:00,456 --> 01:27:02,560
some fundamental skills of

1797
01:27:02,594 --> 01:27:04,008
regulating the nervous system,

1798
01:27:04,043 --> 01:27:05,318
the students are not

1799
01:27:05,353 --> 01:27:06,663
often able to even

1800
01:27:06,698 --> 01:27:08,387
move into a meditation
and the breath

1801
01:27:08,422 --> 01:27:09,939
can often be a trigger

1802
01:27:09,974 --> 01:27:11,594
for that former trauma.

1803
01:27:11,629 --> 01:27:13,767
So we've built in
an entire chapter

1804
01:27:13,801 --> 01:27:15,284
based on building

1805
01:27:15,318 --> 01:27:18,077
skills of resilience.

1806
01:27:18,112 --> 01:27:20,284
Scientifically based
on the breakthroughs

1807
01:27:20,318 --> 01:27:21,629
that have been
made in the fields

1808
01:27:21,663 --> 01:27:22,456
of cognitive science,

1809
01:27:22,491 --> 01:27:23,974
epigenetics,

1810
01:27:24,008 --> 01:27:24,974
and neuroscience

1811
01:27:25,008 --> 01:27:25,974
over the past thirty years,

1812
01:27:26,008 --> 01:27:27,767
the SEE program teaches

1813
01:27:27,801 --> 01:27:29,456
effective coping skills,

1814
01:27:29,491 --> 01:27:32,905
strategies that can used
to regulate emotion,

1815
01:27:32,939 --> 01:27:34,974
and strategies to gain focus.

1816
01:27:35,008 --> 01:27:36,974
Now the modern knowledge,

1817
01:27:37,008 --> 01:27:38,250
education,

1818
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:44,905
not adequate to
bring happy society.

1819
01:27:44,939 --> 01:27:49,077
We create some
problem, disagreement,

1820
01:27:49,939 --> 01:27:53,043
then the solution,

1821
01:27:53,077 --> 01:27:57,974
we put the responsibility
of the solution on gun.

1822
01:27:59,767 --> 01:28:02,008
Totally wrong.

1823
01:28:02,043 --> 01:28:03,974
The SEE program
has been translated

1824
01:28:04,008 --> 01:28:05,767
into twelve different languages

1825
01:28:05,801 --> 01:28:07,939
and in April of 2019

1826
01:28:07,974 --> 01:28:09,456
the Dalai Lama launched

1827
01:28:09,491 --> 01:28:11,353
the program worldwide.

1828
01:28:16,698 --> 01:28:20,422
This is our thirtieth dialogue.

1829
01:28:21,215 --> 01:28:24,905
Thirty occasions where we
have sat with His Holiness,

1830
01:28:24,939 --> 01:28:28,215
scientists,
philosophers, scholars

1831
01:28:28,250 --> 01:28:31,077
and contemplatives,

1832
01:28:31,112 --> 01:28:34,215
investigating the
relationship between

1833
01:28:34,250 --> 01:28:37,043
Buddhist science
and modern science.

1834
01:28:37,077 --> 01:28:39,215
We also want to acknowledge

1835
01:28:39,250 --> 01:28:42,491
your dear friend
Francisco Varela

1836
01:28:42,525 --> 01:28:44,594
whose vision

1837
01:28:44,629 --> 01:28:47,801
made it possible
in a very powerful

1838
01:28:47,836 --> 01:28:50,422
way for all of us to be together

1839
01:28:50,456 --> 01:28:52,767
and to greet Amy Varela.

1840
01:28:52,801 --> 01:28:54,387
Where are you Amy?

1841
01:28:54,422 --> 01:28:59,422
Who is president of the
board of Mind & Life Europe.

1842
01:29:05,181 --> 01:29:07,318
Creating bridges
through dialogue

1843
01:29:07,353 --> 01:29:08,560
is not a quick

1844
01:29:08,594 --> 01:29:11,284
and straightforward process.

1845
01:29:11,318 --> 01:29:13,939
To participate in
a true dialogue,

1846
01:29:13,974 --> 01:29:16,077
you must bring to it

1847
01:29:16,112 --> 01:29:18,974
the whole of yourself.

1848
01:29:19,008 --> 01:29:20,939
You must expect that
building a bridge

1849
01:29:20,974 --> 01:29:23,491
may be slow, difficult,

1850
01:29:23,525 --> 01:29:26,008
even threatening at times.

1851
01:29:26,043 --> 01:29:28,215
Its essence is in its dynamical

1852
01:29:28,250 --> 01:29:30,043
and open nature,

1853
01:29:30,077 --> 01:29:31,905
which is a necessary condition

1854
01:29:31,939 --> 01:29:34,181
for something really new

1855
01:29:34,215 --> 01:29:36,422
to emerge from it.

1856
01:29:36,456 --> 01:29:38,250
And the active ingredient

1857
01:29:38,284 --> 01:29:41,663
in the production of
something radically new

1858
01:29:41,698 --> 01:29:43,974
is personal commitment.

1859
01:29:44,008 --> 01:29:45,698
Absolute presence

1860
01:29:45,732 --> 01:29:48,284
through compassion
and friendship.

1861
01:29:49,043 --> 01:29:52,077
Gentle bridges, a
true dialogue between

1862
01:29:52,112 --> 01:29:54,525
the Western and the
Buddhist traditions

1863
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:56,215
for investigating

1864
01:29:56,250 --> 01:29:58,146
the nature of reality.

1865
01:29:59,456 --> 01:30:01,284
The Dalai Lama
continued to push for

1866
01:30:01,318 --> 01:30:03,112
the expansion of dialogue with

1867
01:30:03,146 --> 01:30:04,560
other scientists from many

1868
01:30:04,594 --> 01:30:06,560
other parts of the world.

1869
01:30:06,594 --> 01:30:07,594
From Africa,

1870
01:30:08,525 --> 01:30:10,077
to Japan.

1871
01:30:11,043 --> 01:30:13,353
With Russian scientists,

1872
01:30:13,387 --> 01:30:15,732
and with Chinese scientists.

1873
01:30:15,767 --> 01:30:20,491
Now we are going
to have one meeting

1874
01:30:20,525 --> 01:30:23,008
with Chinese scientists.

1875
01:30:23,043 --> 01:30:24,663
This is first time.

1876
01:30:24,698 --> 01:30:27,077
So there is real potential

1877
01:30:27,112 --> 01:30:28,905
Now here we are a few people.

1878
01:30:28,939 --> 01:30:33,353
But we are representing
billions of people. OK.

1879
01:30:35,284 --> 01:30:37,594
And that's, not academic,

1880
01:30:37,629 --> 01:30:40,663
but world passing
through some kind of

1881
01:30:40,698 --> 01:30:43,456
crisis of emotion,

1882
01:30:43,491 --> 01:30:46,905
that emotion will not go,

1883
01:30:46,939 --> 01:30:50,732
go away by prayer

1884
01:30:50,767 --> 01:30:52,870
but training our mind.

1885
01:30:53,594 --> 01:30:56,112
In order to train our mind,

1886
01:30:56,146 --> 01:30:58,284
we should have fuller knowledge

1887
01:30:58,318 --> 01:30:59,663
about the whole system

1888
01:30:59,698 --> 01:31:01,836
of our emotion and mind.

1889
01:31:01,870 --> 01:31:05,525
We will certainly
welcome you in Taiwan

1890
01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:08,698
and we are initiating
continual discussions

1891
01:31:08,732 --> 01:31:10,629
in Taiwan sometime.

1892
01:31:10,663 --> 01:31:12,422
Thank you.

1893
01:31:15,525 --> 01:31:17,250
On his eightieth birthday,

1894
01:31:17,284 --> 01:31:19,767
the Dalai Lama
publicly reaffirmed

1895
01:31:19,801 --> 01:31:21,215
his commitment to stand

1896
01:31:21,250 --> 01:31:22,905
shoulder to shoulder
with scientists

1897
01:31:22,939 --> 01:31:24,905
as they tackle the
toughest issues

1898
01:31:24,939 --> 01:31:26,422
facing humanity.

1899
01:31:26,456 --> 01:31:28,560
I'm a simple Buddhist monk,

1900
01:31:28,594 --> 01:31:30,456
but at the same time

1901
01:31:30,491 --> 01:31:34,767
eventually I become very
close with scientists.

1902
01:31:34,801 --> 01:31:36,318
In our training,

1903
01:31:36,353 --> 01:31:39,284
reason become very important.

1904
01:31:40,043 --> 01:31:42,215
So this scientific way,

1905
01:31:42,250 --> 01:31:43,525
it compels us.

1906
01:31:43,560 --> 01:31:45,146
Now think,

1907
01:31:45,181 --> 01:31:48,250
how to utilize their
sort of findings,

1908
01:31:48,284 --> 01:31:49,870
translate into action.

1909
01:31:49,905 --> 01:31:51,422
New ideas.

1910
01:31:51,456 --> 01:31:53,525
New way.

1911
01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:55,974
Scientists really showing,

1912
01:31:56,974 --> 01:31:58,767
I think, genuine interest in

1913
01:31:58,801 --> 01:32:01,629
trying to make a better world.

1914
01:32:01,663 --> 01:32:05,974
So this is the sign of progress.

1915
01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:12,698
So therefore, remain a
little bit skeptical.

1916
01:32:12,732 --> 01:32:16,112
Then, skepticism brings doubt.

1917
01:32:16,146 --> 01:32:19,456
Doubt brings investigation.

1918
01:32:20,318 --> 01:32:21,560
Buddha stated,

1919
01:32:21,594 --> 01:32:23,318
all my followers,

1920
01:32:23,353 --> 01:32:25,560
monks, scholars,

1921
01:32:25,594 --> 01:32:27,801
should not accept

1922
01:32:27,836 --> 01:32:32,836
my teaching out of
faith, out of devotion,

1923
01:32:33,663 --> 01:32:36,663
but rather thorough
investigation

1924
01:32:36,698 --> 01:32:39,181
and experiment.

1925
01:32:39,215 --> 01:32:40,422
Through that way,

1926
01:32:40,456 --> 01:32:41,525
once you're convinced,

1927
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:43,836
then you accept my teaching.

1928
01:32:44,767 --> 01:32:48,077
So, this is quite, sort
of, scientific way.

1929
01:32:48,112 --> 01:32:49,112
So, therefore,

1930
01:32:49,146 --> 01:32:51,146
my body,

1931
01:32:51,181 --> 01:32:52,663
this person,

1932
01:32:52,698 --> 01:32:54,422
half Buddhist monk,

1933
01:32:54,456 --> 01:32:56,767
half scientist.

1934
01:32:58,525 --> 01:33:00,525
♪